Feb. 11, 2021

Understanding Personalities, Mentorship, and Maximizing Results with Toriono Davis, Pro Scout in US and Europe

Understanding Personalities, Mentorship, and Maximizing Results with Toriono Davis, Pro Scout in US and Europe

In Episode 16, Toriono Davis, Professional Scout in US and Europe, Connector, and Entrepreneur, talks with Phil about the ins and outs of the DISC Model of Human Behavior, how he uses it to connect deeply and quickly with his players and clubs, and...

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In Episode 16, Toriono Davis, Professional Scout in US and Europe, Connector, and Entrepreneur, talks with Phil about the ins and outs of the DISC Model of Human Behavior, how he uses it to connect deeply and quickly with his players and clubs, and help them reach their potential, the power and importance of mentorship, and why you might want to give your recruits a DISC assessment before signing or hiring them. Specifically, Toriono discusses:

  • His story, how he developed his passion for soccer and leadership, and how a guy who didn’t even like soccer as a kid ended up working as a professional scout (3:05)
  • What the DISC Model of Human Behavior is, why it is important to you and your teams, and how he uses it to help the clubs and players with whom he works to reach their potential (9:46)
  • Why and how we need to tailor our approaches to our different team members based on their personalities (17:33)
  • How leaders of soccer team/club and all other organizations can use the DISC to maximize their results more efficiently (25:53)
  • How the DISC can help players and their parents understand each other better, help families, and help disenfranchised people as well (31:14)
  • Whether certain personality types fit certain positions in soccer, other implications of personality assessments in the context of the game, and why coaches and employers may want to give their recruits personality assessments (37:58)
  • The importance of understanding a player’s/employee’s motivation, hunger, and passion in your leadership of him or her (52:45)
  • The importance of mentorship (which is throughout the interview) and Toriono’s book recommendations (58:08)

Resources and Links from this Episode


[00:00:00] Phil:[00:00:00] Welcome to How Soccer Explains Leadership. As you know, if you have been listening to this show, I'm Phil Darke, I'm your host. And I'm, again, excited to share with you the guest that we have today. His name is Toriono Davis. He is a man with many things on his plate, and I am excited to share some of those things with you.

He's also a good friend of mine. we've done some different things together. but before we get to that interview with Toriono If it's something you haven't done already subscribe to this show, that way you won't miss any of our great episodes that we have all these great people that we have on, I'm not just picking people randomly.

I'm picking people that I know I'm learning from in my life. And I want you to be learning from, in yours as well, and be able to help you to be a better leader on and off the pitch. And then also, if you haven't done so already. Go ahead and rate and review the show, wherever you're listening to it.

You can go ahead and rate and review buttons and to do that, that helps to get out to a lot more people out there. And then for your sake, [00:01:00] join the Facebook group so you can continue this conversation beyond the podcast and something that we're growing that, and as we grow it bigger and bigger, we're going to be able to have better and better conversations.

So go to Facebook and join that group if you haven't done so already. without more on that today, we have, Toriono Davis Toriono, how are you doing?

Toriono:[00:01:17] Oh, man, I'm doing great Phil. And thank you for having me on. And I can't stress enough the podcast, some great stuff. I've already shown it to some of my guys.

In fact, my son was over in England doing trials with soccer it's been great. And the number one thing that the different coaches and mentors, agents, players, whatnot from different levels have said they really appreciated the leadership and some of the things he gathered from the podcast.

And I would anybody up and coming. Video analysis recruiter, coach, investor, whatever you are player. Please take advantage of the mentorship and little life lessons that, people are dropping on this that took them decades to learn really can advance your forward. which is something that in our industry, people are looking for because it's results oriented.

And if it takes you 20 years [00:02:00] to get a 30 second result, I think you're going to have a short-lived as fruitful as it could be experience at the higher level

Phil:[00:02:07] yeah. you and I have talked about that a lot to learn what we can to have that humble posture, that learning posture to be able to learn from others who have been there before us.

And hoping to get people on to be able to do that and ourselves be able to share what, we've learned. So hopefully people coming behind us, Are able to benefit, like we've benefited from others who just, got some great wisdom to share with us. So, those of you who aren't watching on video, you're not seeing the Dortmund Jersey that Toronto is sportin' because he does have connections all over Europe. I'm going to let him share with us his bio and anything he might forget. I might remind him of as I've done in the past with some of our other guests, but Toriono, can you just briefly share your story? How you got to be where you are today?

I know you've had some stints playing some professional soccer. have some, involvement with the military, some other things that are just some really cool stuff that really has taught you and brought you to where you are today. Can you share that with the folks listening in?

Toriono:[00:02:55] Oh yeah, absolutely. so I grew up Cleveland, Ohio as interested in this particular [00:03:00] story, because just getting out of that city, I was fortunate through a lot of different mentorship and things like that. And basically for me, soccer was a vehicle, there's only a couple of ways you can get out sports. Maybe you're a brain. Military, maybe you can get a job, so for me, I didn't care what it was. I wasn't the smartest that wasn't the fastest athlete or nothing like that. But I said, what, if I could find a niche and someone that's willing to mentor me and work with me and be patient that's how I came out.

So for me the nice thing about it is I was raised by my grandfather and grandmother. I actually knew my great-grandmother, which was nice. So aunts and uncles, great aunts and uncles. It was an interesting area in Cleveland ranging from, your suburbian, normal  issues and experiences positive and negative to you know, at that time, crack cocaine and mafia Wars and all kinds of other criminal Wars and other things that, a large city like that Cleveland being little Detroit can bring the parents have a strong entrepreneurial background, grandparents and whatnot, family ran multiple businesses, so [00:04:00] had to become independent rapidly.

And that was nice because I love that.  Now I switch from American football while I was a wide receiver, a punter cornerback, the soccer team actually recruited me my junior year towards the middle of the junior year. Nah as I said before, I just wanted to get out of Cleveland vehicle.

I was like, okay. I was like, I don't know, not, I know soccer. I was like, I don't even have a lifecycle. It was stupid. I didn't, typical. I was like it. Okay. That looks cool. You kick a ball. Yeah. I was like, that was it, man. We beat you guys up. I'll play this. I'm like, why are you even talking about it?

Here's what was so funny. I developed a love for the game. These guys, they mentored me, took me under their wing. I was lifeguarding at the time. And It was crazy because the guy at university of Cincinnati, he was ranked fifth, Cincinnati division one college he's ranked fifth, and then he's mentored by Joe Machnik and Brad Friedel.

And you see Dr. Joe on Fox Sports all the time. Greg Andrulis he coached Columbus Crew and Brad Friedel fonts hall. the Netherlands, just these legends, he coached at [00:05:00] maybe a couple of names, you know Manchester United, Barcelona, so what was nice was. I got to the point where those folks taught me. And I got to a point where I saw the Cleveland Force, which ironically I'm in Annapolis, Maryland now, I see the Baltimore Blast, but watching Kyle Hoskins, this Iceland guy.

Right. And watching them, how they moved and just how they did it. And it cracks me up because people talk about attendance. I remember being at indoor soccer games where there was 50,000 people. in Cleveland, and it snows there. and those types of numbers in the snow. Even for a hockey game and folks come out and then I've been blessed enough where learn the sport enough to the point where I've been recognized by a lot of different individuals.

And I've been helping those clients through consultants or coaching where I'm even able to help people you see on TV that play in Europe even on a Saturday or Sunday. So, that's my

Phil:[00:05:51] situation there. You kind of left out a little bit, as far as your you're also scouting some players, you're acting as a scout, helping young players get [00:06:00] connected with maybe a right fit for them. You also spent some time in South America playing. Am I correct there? Can you just share a little bit about those couple of things?

Toriono:[00:06:08] So I was fortunate had some time in the military with the Marines and and I think they are more being nice, but I became a pretty good goalie.

Got a chance to be in some of the reserves and that type of setup in South America. And it was fun because seeing that game and watching them play just in the street, watching them play, what we call futsol now, but they were on a basketball court and I'm like, what in the world?

Cause I'm, for me, I'm sitting for wait a minute, you guys are playing on concrete. I said, Oh, this I know, I mean, Basketball football street. And I'm like, wait a minute. No one told me this stuff. I cussed out the soccer team after they came to me. Cause I said, look, if y'all would have told me about this goalkeeping thing, I'm like, I can punt.

I was having fun. I said, I'll be up here two or three, a days. And pads, all I need is gloves. I was still wearing the football girdle because it was padding, but I loved it so much. It was just, it got to the point where we're now people [00:07:00] started coming to me and it was nice cause like in the Marines, there was only two people speaking English.

I was one of them now, they could speak English obviously, but it was great being around 25 different styles on the same pitch. And that's what I love with this game is that is such a liberating factor to the point where I'm fortunate enough now, where I'm actually helping people, whether they want to get to college, high school, recreational transition.

If they're at the elite level, I can give them the pro Europe and whatnot, different levels. So yeah, my organization, we help people transition to modern game. We also help them with the social psychology aspect.  If you want to reach me for those different things, my website is FC-Omega.com or you can call the office number at (866) 234-9864 . But thank you. Yeah, that was a amazing experience to the point where now we're able to help those big clients, small clients, consultant, whatever. And I've been able to actually make a living from something I love and help the people that I have relationships with, which I never would have thought I'm I never would've thought  

Phil:[00:07:58] And one of the things you said is [00:08:00] really what we're going to be focusing on today for this episode is the sports psychology side of it.

The thing that we met doing was training for DISC model of human behavior. And I want to talk with you about that today. A few people have talked about this. In fact, a few episodes ago, my co-host asked me to give a brief explanation of the differences between all the different personality assessments Enneagram and DISC and Myers-Briggs and so on and so forth.

And, as he said, I've been certified in the DISC. He called me an expert in the DISC. And I hesitate to say anything. I'm an expert in anything, because that to me says a whole lot more than, we want to, but you and I both have been trained up in it. We know a lot more than most people do about DISC.

And so I wanted to bring you on because. you're one of the guys that I know that knows the DISC model of human behavior and the game of football/soccer, depending on where you are. And you're also a guy who's been involved in, like you said, the military, you're running your own company. [00:09:00] Now you see leadership on different levels, both in the game and outside the game.

So I wanted to talk with you about really start off by just explaining what DISC is, but as we go on in this episode, we'll talk more, it'll be really a good conversation, hopefully about what the DISC is, how you're using it in the soccer clubs and programs that you're working with and why it is critical in leadership.

So let's start with that. What DISC is, I've given a little snippet in the past, but a lot of people probably haven't heard that episode. And also, I want to hear your take on it as far as how you explain to people what DISC is and why it's important to them.

Toriono:[00:09:36] Yes. I'm so glad that you mentioned that in Phil's being modest. he truly is one of the upper caliber of folks that understand and can apply it. and I've appreciated that because if you think about it, here's what I love with DISC. DISC is an area that if you're having issues with struggling, with understanding yourself, Confidence.

If you're trying to just get the most out of relationships if you're trying to [00:10:00] figure out how to, get the results, have fun support, other people figure out the best practices, and understand why maybe you don't click with someone else or just wondered why, Hey, why did different things, not quite work out, when I was a boss Why did it not work out like why did I not mesh with the people? let's say I was the best employee, but all of a sudden I became a supervisor and now everybody looks at me like, I'm crazy. what in the world? Or I was great at the military. And I applied those techniques and principles to my family and my wife's ready to divorce me and kids won't talk to me. What's going on?

Or maybe I'm a coach and I was amazing player, but you know what the. Team doesn't follow me. They don't listen to me, and I think maybe that's why I was drawn to goalkeeping because. The leadership. I just drew to me where it's just, you, you can't hide. You make a mistake, it's in the net.

But what I like with the DISC is this. The DISC is a personality assessments. it basically helps [00:11:00] you. In a positive way, help you understand yourself and others. Myers-Briggs, I've got nothing against them. But that's a little corporate that can be pricey and you might need a PhD to understand what, you know, Freud and all these other folks.

What I like with DISC is we used it in the military and that's actually my first exposure. and then seeing, Dr. Rohm there. There's different versions, but we work with Personality Insights, and it's amazing Dr. Rohm. What I love, what he did is back in 1994, he said, look, here's what we've got.

There's outgoing reserved there's task and people. But what I loved about it was. He said, look, don't weaponize this because I always had a question. I had different friends in special forces. and then when I worked with those guys, I said, Hey, you've got it where, it's fascinating with the military and sports too, but you've got it where you've got this surfer.

Long-haired hippie, he's doing the same thing as the jock athlete. Who's doing the same thing as the, corporate, fraternity kid that's been [00:12:00] raised by his dad. Well, how did that person become the force recon Marine? Green Beret? Navy seal? Like how, how does that work? Because are you telling me that.

That anybody can do a job, you know? ‘Cause I was always fascinated with those types of questions where I said, but wait a minute, this person here is an introvert. How are they able to be the best sales person out there, the best recruiter or whatnot? and what this has taught me is this.

now sometimes we'll get flack on this, but the best way I can explain is this, there isn't a introvert. Per se, because if you are a true introvert, when I talk to different social psychologists, when I talked to different clinical psychologists and therapists, they're like, look, if you're a true introvert, you don't leave the cave.

you don't interact with society. You don't go outside, you do not talk. If I talk to you, it's not like a panic wherever you don't interact, there's no interaction. what I like with the DISC model, it says, wait, you're reserved and you can flex your personality.

A lot of people have [00:13:00] struggled with that, because think about it. How many times did we went with a player you see be more vocal, be more vocal, be more at work, get fired up. And they're, they're like. Either they're running away or, or they're like I didn't quite like that. Or maybe they're good actors, but what I like about it is that when I work with a goalie, for example, or a striker and I've got to help them be more vocal, I say, well, look, one we'll practice it.

But number two, just because you're reserved, doesn't mean you can't do this job and you have to not have confidence. Speaking is not a natural thing. A lot of people have a fear of it, but here's how we can work through this challenge and make you better. So to bring it home. Helping somebody who was reserved or they think it is an introvert.

And they think that it's a curse, we can say, no, you absolutely can be good at sales. You absolutely can be good as a captain in this playing role you have, but here's the adjustments we need you to understand and make. We need you to understand that this person that you're interacting with, they need your message to [00:14:00] be a little more vocal.

A little bit louder. Here's some steps you can take. and what's nice about it is this, understand that when you make your adjustment by understanding yourself, and then you understand what somebody else needs, you're not trying to change them. And then now you can make adjustments of yourself without changing yourself.

You're still internally good. But now here's what it becomes. Okay. I can be vocal. I can be boisterous. I can be whatever I need, like a drama, an actor on a stage for 90 minutes. Now, the difference is if that's not your natural personality style, you will be drained and you will have to recharge.

So what I love with that is. Is that the DISC just shows you very quickly how to talk with the different personalities and you can make adjustments. And what I've noticed is it really helps me just, really go and speak to the needs of that person and keep them energized and competent as a player and individual, and then help them [00:15:00] get to where they need to be.

So this to me is the best for chemistry. We do an assessment. Virtual. and then we have a little team talk, we do a individual, and then we do a collective as a group. So we do the one-on-ones and then we do collective. And then we also add a leadership aspect where I talk, even with the parents the team manager, if you will,  and what most players have said to me, we really appreciate what you're doing is because we feel like you're talking to us. We feel like you understand, and then. it also helps us manage the team better by putting people in the right positions based on their personality traits and interests, things like that.

So that's kind of how I've applied it. That's kinda how I view it. and then just, adding to what has already been said in the previous podcasts.

Phil:[00:15:43] Yeah. and I just want to take a step back real quick. All that is absolutely dead on, as far as the application of it, the importance of it, the fact that, we too often will type people and put them into a box rather than, as we learned it, everyone is a blend of all [00:16:00] four personality types. The D I S C in the DISC. We're a blend of all four of those. Myers-Briggs, as you said often does that via percentages, You know, I'm a. 93% extrovert. And that's not just a random number. I'm actually a 93% extrovert.

But when you look at the DISC, it definitely is correlated. But the problem is what does 93% extrovert mean? And what is the, all these other letters? There's, you know, eight letters in the Myers-Briggs and you have all of these blends and, and it's just, the DISC is simpler. And again, not to say Myers-Briggs is not great.

Great tool. If you actually understand it, but like you said, you need kind of needed the decoder ring and a PhD to really, really, really understand it. Now, DISC, you can now, in all fairness, you can go super deep into the DISC too, right? I mean, you can go super deep, but you don't need to. as we learned it, I'm just going to quiz you here at Toriono.

So don't fail me, man. Don't fail me, dude.

Toriono:[00:16:54] He's got the cue cards.

Phil:[00:16:55] Don't worry. So you talked about it really quickly, but I want to walk [00:17:00] through it for people who don't know it. For people who this is your first primer on the DISC. So we have outgoing and reserved are the top quadrant in the bottom quadrant of this circle.

We learned it really as the outgoing and reserved are really your motor. Right. You remember that? Yes. So talk about that a little bit, as far as this is really made sense to me.

So you have the outgoing and we liken them to different cars if you remember correctly. And the, the outgoing would be likened to two. Do you remember what kind of car? Yeah. Faster pace.

Toriono:[00:17:32] Yeah. Well, I always liked like the Maserati or the Ferrari kind of fast, where's, the other one is more of a reserved, slower not.

I dunno, Honda or Chiat or something like that, but it's a slower slower gears, not just, the one person is up and they're moving, you know, back and forth, to the point where they actually drain the other person, the other person is trying to get, a cup of coffee and the other motor's already

Phil:[00:17:55] gone.

Right. You know, my wife, in the morning when I get up as a very outgoing [00:18:00] kind of that sports car, as you talked about it, right? I always kind of talk about it as a sports car versus the smart car. And you have the sports car where zero to 60. No problem. You're just going, you go all day.

At the end of the day, your battery is actually charged more than it was at the beginning of the day. When you started up the car and you could go, if you're a people all day, you could keep going and you're just fired up and jazzed and you could keep going for another 12 hours with people. versus that smart car, which is more of the reserved where you're going and you go. And you go and you can get to 65, but then it's draining your gas. But when you get home at night, after dealing with people and driving, what do you gotta do? You gotta plug that sucker in. Yeah. Right.

you don't want people talking with you, like I've already dealt with my people time. and this is, what's great. You and I both know, and we're training people on this when they see that. And they're just like, Oh, okay. Now it makes sense.

Toriono:[00:18:53] Right. we'll think about with soccer.

Isn't it amazing when you've got done with a big event, And now you have the [00:19:00] team dinner and how many times have people yelled at Jenny or John because they're like, well, you're not a team player. What do you mean you don't want to interact with what you call? What do you mean?  It's amazing where it's like, well, wait a minute. If you say, Hey, you're going to have some time to yourself. We'll build that out. But we do want to have that collective experience. So, Hey, during this hours we'd like to do this. Here's the structure. And they're more amiable to that.

Phil:[00:19:21] or awards, banquets Right? some people want to be up on stage and they want to get on a mic and give a speech about how great they were and how great the team was and how the great this and that and the other thing. And they want you to get through all the accolades on them. And then other kids like my son would rather have you just give them the award off the stage and just say, Hey, great job, man.

You did awesome. You've had a great season because of X, Y, and Z. you talk to certain personalities and they're like, You don't have to tell me all why I did great. Just tell me I did great and give me the award. That's fantastic. I love it. But then other people, they need you to tell you why I talked to my son the same thing, the same son yesterday, if I just told you great job, would that mean much to you?

[00:20:00] He's like, no. You need to tell me why I did a great job or else it doesn't mean a whole lot. And again, when you understand personalities, all that comes together and make sense, and it's really important to know those different ones. So we talked about that outgoing, reserved, right? So that's the first question you asked to really kind of get an idea and that's the pace, and so as we talk about not many accidents are caused by the speed of the cars on the freeway. You don't see that, that usually adjust to outgoing or reserved, but the other one, the task focused or people focused. That's the one that usually causes the accidents, which is why they call it the compass.

Right. And so can you just share a little bit about the task versus the people focus there and the differences and why it does usually cause a lot of accidents.

Toriono:[00:20:44] Yeah. Well, it's interesting. I will tell you this, I'll mention the two individuals again. So if you ask one of my daughters, if you ask one of them to say, Hey what you said, hurt my feelings and you say, Oh, I'm sorry.

I didn't, I didn't realize that. I [00:21:00] apologize. You asked the other ones, you say, well, toughen up.

So it was interesting so I'm teaching one sympathy and up teacher, the other one, empathy, I can say, well, you can think tough it up, but you say, well, we understand you burnt your hand when you touch the stove, maybe you should think about not touching items that are hot instead of flat.

Oh, stupid. What'd you do that for? not that she's not caring, not that they don't have feelings, but it's amazing how a person that is people oriented. they really are in tuned with, sympathy. They understand different things that might be said or perceived. And they're amazing at this Where it really can help with harmony and, different items like that. You know, being her really a true, friend, whereas task that person they're going to be able to energize things in such a manner where results are going to happen. Now, there may be a pile of bodies [00:22:00] exercise, but they will get things done.

So what that task person has to understand is that sometimes a good morning hello, proper greeting of the day, a taking five seconds to listen and then going into the checklist of items we need to do. is very effective for the individual that is very focused on people. And what the people person may be to understand is that when they're talking with a person that values tasks, if they're in a position of leadership or whatever, where they're doing a collaboration, they need to give that agenda, get to the result.

that person doesn't really care about the weather the day. They're like, no, give me this stuff, let's get this done. get out of my way now, you know? So, yeah, it's amazing how those two clash, because they can be blind spots for each other

Phil:[00:22:45] for sure. And it's something that we see that all the time. you see task-focused and people focus people and they usually misinterpret each other's behaviors and actions. And that's usually what happens when it causes the conflict. [00:23:00] And we often will talk about these different personality types as different languages, where you are fluent in. I. Of the D I S C I'm fluent in I, and you're fluent in I, because we both have I above the midline of the assessment. So we can pretty much click. We can talk, we can do it even though you're a D/I and I'm an I/D, but were fluent in each other's languages. Primary language and our secondary languages are the other one's primary.

But if we come up with a C or an S who's, that's their primary, we need to either learn that language, which we know a little bit of. We can dabble in it. We can go and ask to go to the bathroom or. Ask for some chicken or something, but we're not gonna, be going to a conference and really being able to understand all the different words we're not fluent in it.

And so it's so important as you just talked about there to understand, first of all, the, you are a blend of all four, but also that you need to learn that language. If [00:24:00] you're actually going to be able to connect with them at the level, you need to connect with them. So now let's say, okay, now let's take it to the game of soccer, Again, that was a crash course. Just so you folks know if you're lost right now. I apologize, but at the same time, I'm going to tell you right now that this will take a couple hours of training to really get it and start applying it. And then it takes a bit more coaching beyond that.

if you really want to get it, it's going to be a half day. But then beyond that, it's going to take some coaching in your particular contexts. But hopefully today we can get you enough idea and wet your appetite a little bit to understand, really like we talked about earlier, why it's important and I think you get it intuitively why it's important just by if you have kids, if you coach a team, and the funny thing is though here, here's the real funny thing.

If you're sitting out, then you're going, no, I don't need it. I don't, I don't re this doesn't this isn't really important to me. I would put a lot of money on the fact that you're a task-focused person. because typically the task [00:25:00] focused people don't think that this stuff is that important. The people focus, people will be like, yes, let's do it.

We need to do it. We need to do it. The fact of the matter of it. All of us need it. And if you're healthy, you'll, understand that and you'll recognize it. Because even if you think you're extremely self-aware yourself and you know yourself, you need to understand others to really be able to communicate with them.

okay. with that, I want to go back to you and go, okay. I know you use this in the context of clinics that you do, soccer teams and the context with training and coaching. You do have clubs, so. What does this look like in the context of that coaching in that training? What is the DISC?

How are you able to use it in the context of your coaching of these other organizations? And then we will have a little bit of fun after you answer that question?

Toriono:[00:25:43] Oh yeah. so here's, what's nice. to maximize the results, you got to understand somebody very quickly, because if you think about it, If you believe you don't need some type of methodology or whatnot, here's what my European clients would tell you. One, they would tell you you're a fool. [00:26:00] They would just flat out. and I'm talking about like, top five leagues, top two divisions in the league, there's a reason why Atletico. Sevillia all these different teams were able to challenge if we take La Liga and it's not just a two horse race anymore. Now they're getting this getting a little bit more exciting because now you've got four teams, sometimes five, where they can come back, you look at Milan now it's amazing how they can come back.

And you look at, inter. Oh, man, what happened? But it's like, okay, how did they do that? How did they catch up to a Juventas and whatnot. we'll, here's what you have to do. You have to understand that one, especially in America it is absurd where the level of understanding is that and that needs to change because we're doing our kids, we're doing the parents and we're doing a lot of folks, a disservice. I can't tell you how many times Phil and I, or me with other high-level folks. USSF, whoever And they look and they watch a coaching session clinic and they're like, Oh my gosh, what in the world that was garbage.

Who is that clown? [00:27:00] or I'd get in a client and. I've been able to have a breakthrough in goalkeeping. Or whatever the field player clinic in a matter of minutes, that parents that are coming to me where they're like, man, we were with this high profile, so-and-so this, that for years.

And you've been able to break it down simple. And just, the kid is shining they're presence is coming out they're loving it. What in the world, how did you do that? And I tell them, well, one DISC and they said, well, what is that?

I said, I'm glad you asked. I said, so look, here's what I want you to do your child. Here is the blend of your child. I would like to do an assessment with your child, but based on what I see here are some things that I believe that you're going to love. if you would allow me to I would like to do a virtual assessment on them and here's what that's going to do for you.

One is going to help you understand where they're coming from, needs behaviors, different things like that, but it's really going to maximize your communication with them. And [00:28:00] when you tell them to do something or just want to understand how to connect with them and really hear it from their point of view or whatnot, that's really going to help.

I've noticed that's been very important to a lot of families because there's a lot of parents come to me and say, they won't listen to me, but they'll listen to you.  This will help that we can have a guide to discussion or whatnot. But so what I do is I give them the assessment and  for the kids, sometimes I don't even give them a choice sometimes. I'll I'll say, Hey, look, this is going to help maximize your, this is going to help me talk to you.

As I'm mentoring you, let's just make it a mandate because I want to maximize this for you because in plus you're going to need it for your middle school, high school, college, different level, you know what I want you to have this, so, here's the cost, boom, let's get it done and take you about, five, 10 minutes, whatever, 20 minutes of Calvin, multiple questions.

and most of them. 80 to 90% do it. Now, what I also do is I take that and I'll also do a per teams. So when I had the camps and clinics, what I want to do [00:29:00] is. for two reasons. One, I want to get the best out of the player, but I want that player to understand themselves. If they don't understand themselves, there's going to be a lot of mental blocks to getting them to the performance level.

I need them to be if they can get a basic understanding of themselves that kind of removes a distraction a fog, if you will. Now, besides that also want to see the team dynamic because. In the clinic. You can't do it all the time, but if you can, is so much easier. If you're talking to people in the language, they understand to get them to where you need to be, because now you can adjust it.

You can say, Hey guys, now, now look, we're going to go ahead. and this is a progression type of drill. Here's the demo. Here's that, but what you're doing is now you're meeting the people that want to understand and want to get to the results and get at it. Hey, I want to have some fun, Hey, I want to understand the best practices.

Hey, you know what? I'm here. I just want to be able to support. folks and I really want to be able to understand and better myself, but really be there for my teammates. So you're able to get that and get the biggest impact. so that's what I do. I mandate it [00:30:00] because I want them to understand that from a communicative perspective, especially if we're doing virtual learning, this is huge because if I can't Hear your voice cues and interpret them properly. See your body language. If we're doing virtually, which we have large virtual business, you need something to offset. Those misunderstandings, those miscommunications, so that's, what I like about DISC and that's how I apply it.

And then sometimes. We will take that particular individual training and many group dynamic. And then what I'll do is I'll talk to the leadership, the chairman, the vice-chairman, the sporting director of those European clubs and, and other clubs and say, Hey look, have you, have you tried this?

Have you thought about this? Because you've invested a lot of money in this individual and. they have a sprained ankle, or you're wondering why, here's the pressure. maybe it is homesickness whatnot, but this can kind of help you retain uh, insurance policy, if you will.

and it'll also make your social psychologist life a little bit easier too. so that's a local dynamic all the way up to corporate, which we do layers. we [00:31:00] operate on the tactical, operational, strategic, all the way. At the same time.

Phil:[00:31:04] Yeah. And you hit on something there that I've talked about, and it's why we do this show actually is to say, it's not just helping that player on the field.

I mean, talking to the parents to say your son, your daughter, they understand themselves. That's the first step of DISC, right? Yep. Then they're also able to understand others and Oh, by the way, parents. You'll understand your child better. If you also take the assessments, your child will understand you better, and the child will understand you better.

Even if you don't take the assessments because the child will be able to ask those two questions. We asked earlier, outgoing, reserved task, focused people focused and understand their parents better. So I know we did this in my house, and I've already said this on the show.  My favorite Christmas presents, my kids ever had not really, but I gave them for Christmas one year, the DISC assessment. And I said, we're going to do this as a family. And you guys, aren't gonna appreciate this this year when you're six to 16.

But you will. Down the road, you will appreciate this and you will see how [00:32:00] this helps you. In soccer, in our home, in your school, in wherever you go in business in your jobs, you're going to be able to understand your bosses better. And hopefully if you can help them understand it, they can understand you better as well.

And then you guys can get the best out of each other and help each other to flourish. And if you don't really understand other people, it's really hard to create a flourishing environment. The environment where they can flourish. And you hit it on the head there where you said, okay, individuals do it.

I did it with my high school team that I coach we did, we had everyone take the assessment, including the coaching staff. We were able to do a training with a team. So they understood it and I love, and you probably see this too. I've seen, tough high school athletes it's crying because they actually realize, yeah.

Oh, I'm not a, you fill in the blank. I'm actually just a different personality and that's okay.

Toriono:[00:32:56] Yeah. And I tell you, I'm so glad you said that Phil, because [00:33:00] one aspect of what we do and I'm so glad for this particular tools, I work also with a lot of disenfranchised folks too.

Whether it's in Cameroon, Nigeria, or Baltimore DC Philly, Brooklyn, wherever. What's so nice about it. Is this kids today they have, social media is almost made it worse where it is. One, they're almost not untied untethered to that high school juvenile experience.

So they can't recharge. Two they're being evaluated based off of this, mythical, final take. So, so now they don't understand themselves. And then they're trying to live up to this. You've got all this angst and all this other energy. And, and if you think that that player is doing amazing on your team with all of that pressure, it was hard before.

Yeah. I'm going to tell you that, you know what The DISC will help you remove a lot of those distractions and [00:34:00] layers. So you can have the conversation to get the best out of that player. But where has helped me is that when I'm dealing with folks that are trying to just get off the street that are trying to figure it out, I mean, home life is a wreck, like prostitution and all kinds of craziness, that's just out there.

It's always been out there, but. Watching that kid have to deal with that and school and just trying to, play a sport. It breaks your heart. But what I love with this tool is that especially at risk kids, we've had a fantastic partnership with the department of justice and a lot of nonprofits where especially for the young men and even young women where they finally

we're able to figure out that they're okay. they finally figured out like, wait a minute. Okay. I have some challenges, but I understand, okay. I can make sense of my world. And I tell you that's been the biggest blessing if you will, because not only am I able to take care of my players, but let's say a lot of the [00:35:00] Salvadorians I work with in this region, I'm able to help their mom.

Have a better relationship with their kid and keep them off MS 13 and then 18th street street gangs, help them to the point where even if they become a better citizen, I've had a great success rate with helping folks not even get deported because we can say, look, look how this kid is not going that path.

Look how this kid is trying to do this, trying to do that, and talking to the authorities in such a manner where they're like, you know what. You just defined leadership, you just defined. Okay. It isn't just a good kid. Oh, I can see what they're trying to do, but helping them understand themselves and having that confidence, that's big because these athletes now.

They have so much accessibility to all the craziness on the internet. They have so much accessibility to drugs, everything that does not help them in their career, the DISC helps them build a foundation between you and them. Very rapidly, to the point where they say, you know what, I'm understanding myself.

I understand the journey. Got it. But [00:36:00] I'm understanding myself. I'm not just looking at horoscopes, you know, cosmopolitan or people. Not that those are bad enough, but I understand myself. I'm understanding others a little bit better. I can make better, more defined choices. And then now I understand how adjustments I may need to make to be a better friend or to keep myself out of that situation.

Peer pressure that may hurt me physically, mentally, or whatever, or, may put me in jail, because you and I both know, look, there's so much talent out there, but most of the talent is either in a graveyard or in a penitentiary. The people we see on the TV are just people that, they got through it.

They're not necessarily the most talented or, effective people in the game.

Phil:[00:36:43] That’s right. Okay. Now we're going to have a little bit of fun. Not that we haven't already. I've had a lot of fun. I don't know about you, but we talked about this. I think it was at the food court during one of the breaks that we had at the training.

I think we talked about this between your calls from like Chelsea [00:37:00] guys and Liverpool guys and all these other people you were talking either that, or you're faking. It just impressed me. I don't know one of the two, but we talked about, okay, Are there certain positions that certain personality types, positions on the football pitch, that certain personality types who would do better in that position.

And maybe do worse in that position if they were a certain personality type. So I'm just going to throw out to you. And then, and I say this, we're having fun on this, but I'm talking coaches. If you're listening to this right now, You may want to give assessments to your recruits. Like it can't be, you can't make them do it.

I don't think, but if you gave assessments to your recruits, maybe you could say, Hey, if you, you could do this, if you're serious and their parents would get a bonus out of it to understand their kid better. But if you're looking at a striker, what kind of personality type would you be looking for Toriono?

Toriono:[00:37:48] I'm so glad you mentioned that. So here's what you need. You need to create the the environment where it doesn't matter, their personality, it matters do they get at the problem? A [00:38:00] striker regardless of their personality just has to love going after that ball, you know, they gotta be like, like if you had a dog and you threw the ball, all they're doing is just chasing, chasing, chasing me, you know, like, you know, I think there was one Dr. Doolittle movie where he's like, give me the ball and he's able to give me the ball. Give me, well, the striker. Has to be like that. They have to be like, they're running whether they get the ball they're running, whether they don't have the ball, they're there and they want it more than everybody else.

Now, now here's where the personality works. I said, since you understand their assessment, Understand, this, this person is more reserved. Don't come at them with great job Timmy.

You're going to scare him.  because here's the thing, that's an act. They are acting outgoing because in their environment, they believe that's what they need to be to be successful. I said, I want you to hit them at the core level. This person, particular personality profile is they're reserved and they have a S and they have a C. Very interesting. So I said, look, give them the best practices, give them the video analysis, because that's going to be [00:39:00] the kid that's going to sit in the film room, give them someone that's maybe a little bit more energetic with them, but I'm also maybe a little reserved to talk to them, you know, augmented, whether you need two people or whatnot because you and I both know how do you improve in anything in soccer?

Ronaldo, he stays after practice. Beckham stays after practice. No. What are these clown coaches do they go in there? They run a seminar. These kids don't have enough touches on the ball. They don't do those small sided games that the coach has spent 80 minutes talking. They haven't done anything.

The level is garbage. They're not even going 80%, let alone 90% in practice. And then the kid doesn't even understand what to do. And the problem is you see people that are making millions of dollars staying after practice looking at film, not eating cheeseburgers every three days, and you've got this kid who doesn't even watch the dang sport.

He's going to be your star? No, he's not your huckleberry. You know, so it's not personality. It is [00:40:00] drive and determination. If that kid wants it. whether they're defender whatnot, because we see it all the time, six foot, three defender won't even head the dang ball. What in the world is going on in a five foot, eight striker wins the ball over him.

And you're like, what in the world is going on? And whether it's division one had a conversation with division one college schools. He's like what he said, where are the rugged athletes at? This is like, what the heck's going on? Like I got this guy six foot three, 190 pounds. He's not physical. so what I'm saying is what we look at is we don't care

who's there. If they are aggressively going at it, that's why, you know, you look at the, keep it on deck or whatnot, what we do and what I've learned from the Europeans is the first thing a lot of them do is they just throw a ball out, like, unless they got film on you or something. but to really kind of see you what they do besides the friendly is, they just throw the ball out and watch the kids play.

Because there are two things. The kids are going to naturally lined up where they're most comfortable. Now that could either be because that's what they understand. Or that's [00:41:00] just where they're at. like I can't beat him. So I'm a lineup here now, besides that the person that's getting after the ball, making the challenges and all those individual things you're looking for in that position, you can take that and you start with them first because everyone else that has kind of relegated themselves, they become your second and third tier folks.

so, if that kind of a long about way, but that's what at the higher level we talk about and we do to get that serious development, because at that point, any coach that doesn't understand, look, the Academy's married for one reason. The true Academy is we're here to develop.

You were taking a loss and we want to sell you for millions. There is no other discussion, right?

Phil:[00:41:43] In Europe. Of course, you're talking about Europe here, so that's not happening in the States, unfortunately, which is part of the problem with the States. But we're not going to get into that today.  Let me just throw something at you though.

Push back a little, It's not so much pushing back. I don't disagree with what you just said, but what I will say is and this is just Phil Darke's [00:42:00] theory here. this hasn't been published anywhere, there's no case studies on it.

There's no anything, except my watching a lot of soccer and meeting a lot of soccer players and watching my kids and their different positions. Okay. So I'm just going to say, I agree with you, that any personality can play any position and your mentors help a ton and you need to be mentored because we are a blend of all personalities and we can learn other personalities and we can do different things in that regard.

But yeah, what I will say, and I think this is absolutely the case, certain personalities are made for them, certain positions. And I, as I said that about the nine about the strikers, if you're talking about a kind of a pure nine striker. Typically an I or a D personality. That would be the natural born striker, as they said, as I said, I joke around, I said it took me five kids to have a pure striker.

And he is my mini me. I/D outgoing personality. That [00:43:00] just wants to go after it, have fun, get results wants the focus on them, wants the attention, wants the glory wants all that because what does that lend to, That lends to going to the ball, right. Going, you know, get ball, see goal, go goal, score goal, right?

An S or a C personality as you learn what the DISC is, would probably struggle with that because they don't want the attention on themselves. They wouldn't say, Oh, that's not the best way to do it from the C perspective, because you gotta work through this, you gotta do that.

But the, the D especially would be like, like Ibrahimovic is a good example of that. He is a D personality. Okay. He's a guy. And if you look back at Eric Cantona, he was probably an I or a D just the way he celebrated goals, his collar flipped up. Right? You see these guys who are the pure, pure strikers. Now Messi, I would say is kind of a false nine, more of a 10.

That would be a little different from that. Right?  But he does it because he knows he's the best at that. And he knows he can beat the guy and he knows he can score, but it's more team focused. [00:44:00] So wingers, I think would probably be more Is because they're more creative and they are able to use their creativity on the wings.

Again, it's not perfect science and it's not a proven theory, but I'm just saying like natural born, if you're talking natural, born where you don't have to mentor as much, but they just kind of go there without thinking. And I look at like the six, the holding mid would be more of your reserved personalities.

They don't need the limelight. They don't want the limelight, but if they see an opening, they'll take it and hit that shot. But for the most part, they want to sit back, look at the field, study the field, be students of the game. Be that quarterback that can put that ball through and if they never get it, That Michael Carrick is a perfect example of that.

I met Michael Carrick and he said maybe four words. He was very reserved, very much a student of the game. He's a guy and he's, it makes a great coach on certain parts of that. Now, with sitting on the bench, there was Solskaer to be able to tell him those things cause he's studying it all the time. And the thing about [00:45:00] Carrick was he didn't score a lot of goals.

He was a guy that if you weren't a United fan, you didn't know Michael Carrick, except that when he wasn't in a game, They only won 35% of the game when he wasn't in that game. Because he was kind of the glue holding it together, but that's going, again, I don't want to go through each, but you kind of get the idea that kind of wing backs, right. You need, kind of a mix of the reserved and the outgoing on the wingbacks or else they'd be forward. I would, I would guess to say Marcello on  if I were to give him an assessment, I guess he's a high, I just, the way he plays, what does he not do a lot of in a game? Play a lot of defense.

he is phenomenal attacking back, but you wouldn't pick him if you needed to lock down a right winger. So anyway, that's my Phil Darke theory What

Toriono:[00:45:48] do you think? Yeah. I love what you said. so here's, what's so interesting about that at the upper level where results matter if you're not getting results, think about it.

Coaches. [00:46:00] They, if they haven't won five games, They're probably out. if the player they may have five to 15 minutes, that's why I say the DISC is an excellent. So here's how I'm helping a lot of the European and even some of the American ones. But here's the Europeans or what we're working with.

They don't have time for all that. because here's the thing when you lose up there, It matters. And if you're talking about relegation, there's no plan, it's safe and whatnot. And you know, it's not just, Oh, we didn't make the playoffs. here's where they've come from. The thing is, ‘cause I agree with you.

You're right. Yeah. The normal, natural and all of that definitely has his application, but here's the issue. If you can't win because character isn't there. If you like, honestly, I tell a lot of Europeans, I'm like, look, yeah, the managers are great, but if you can't play at that level and you need the gaffer, you're an idiot.

You got the wrong person I should have. There is no, there is. I assure you the professional teams that I, you you're gone. Because the thing is I can bring a 16 year old [00:47:00] in who just listens and I don't need them to be a perfect striker. Can you affect the game? Because here's what I'd say with like Marcello and all of them, the difference is this.

Why have they not gotten the results when Ronaldo left. Because leadership, it goes back to all of that is fancy, but here's what people don't understand. And when I talk with a lot of the people that matter, like they have millions of dollars on the line or thousands of dollars, whatever, it's their own savings and whatnot.

And I said, look, but here's what you have to understand. I said, first off at leadership. Any of them can work. And I hate to say that, but what we've learned is look, any leadership style can work. Don't be fooled. Now. We're not saying some are better than others, but a toxic one can work the pander one, the pander, the stern, the, or the good leader.

Now the issue is you want to have the good leader, but can any of them work? Yes, unfortunately, because the key is you gotta have a system where you pay a price, if you don't perform. And the difference is when you have the [00:48:00] person to your left and right pushing you, it makes you better. So the issue is most of these folks, and what we have issues with is that they've never been taught to win.

The best leadership documentary I've seen is The Last Dance with Michael Jordan, you've heard a lot about it, but I'll prove the point through something like this. When people ask Kobe Bryant or who's the best Kobe or Jordan, Kobe himself said, that's a stupid question. Don't compare us. I went to Michael Jordan to be mentored.

Right. and there's plenty of people look, I'm from Cleveland, but I will tell you, and some people will, say different, but I'm like, The individual that came from Cleveland is not the best in the world. I'm just looking at simple leadership I'm looking at are these things that leaders do.

They're not, C one of the best in the world said no. When I needed to improve, I went to goat mountain, Michael Jordan mentored him just as much as Ronaldinho mentored Messi. People don't know that. so when we go to all of that like you were saying, I'm like, no, no, [00:49:00] you're right.

But here's what I'm helping the Europeans and other people with this, I'm saying, look, guys, I said, here's my issue with what you're doing? Your banking your season bonuses and all kinds of stuff. You're leaving money on the table. If you have a 16 year old Neymar, I said, do you understand you have a 16 year old Neymar. You have a teenager.

He's worried about his girlfriend, this, that, so why don't you bring in an older American or an older player that helps shore up your locker room? That's right, because if Carrick was as quality as they say, he should be able to lead on the sideline or on the field, Ronaldo did. He helped Portugal win that game.

Right. You've seen it. And when he left Real Madrid, you saw it. and we talked about these different things. We said, how Zidane who wasn't necessarily the best? Like he failed in the reserves People were killing his teams. Why did he win with real Madrid?

There was two things we're like, we're Rafa. We're like, well, why didn't Rafa win? [00:50:00] So we said, well, it may have been just player personalities. When they looked at Zidane, they looked at Zidane as the coach, the mentor, I'm going to do what he says, because I respect him. Whereas when Rafa said, you need to fix it.

They're like, ah, you know what, your mother, So you're right with the players Absolutely. But, but here's the thing what I was telling them is this. I said, look, the individuals have to take ownership and it has to be leadership. It can't be okay. We lost the goal and the heads are down.

It can't be, if Ronaldo's there, we get win and we change if he's not there, you need the people that I don't give a dang if he's there, he's not there, we're going to win. And I'm going to put my foot in yo’ behind you're behind or whatever. Then that's what Jordan did because Jordan went to these different people and he said, wait a minute, you not champions.

You said you were on a bench, you were third or fourth string. What are you talking about? You don't know none about winning. Get out of my face. And that's what a leader would do. And now his personality style definitely fits the mold of what you're saying, but what I [00:51:00] was trying to help, help those guys understand was this.

I said, look, you gotta understand, like, in an elite military or whatever I said, when you see the best teams, you'll see it where even the quietest person won't let you let down the legacy.  What you need is this it's the accountability is, it is, I'm not letting Phil down.

I don't care about the result, bang that I'm not letting my buddy Phil down. If I'm on the field and Phil is going to help me do better.  So you're right. So that's why I tell them to get away from the, this person is naturally for that and character, because I said, when you have a person like yourself, think about it, Phil, how many of those natural leaders did you beat out when you were playing?

How many folks does Amanda just get rid of? Because yeah, they got great talent, but their character. Is garbage and they will never survive, you know? So yes, you're right. But where the Europeans and other folks are at and where money's on the line, what happens. Okay. You're right. You have that person in there.

Great. [00:52:00] Is that the upper level? If you're that good, I'm a buy you. So now, what are you gonna do? You're gonna tank your season, maybe lose your job and lose bonuses because you're waiting. Or are you going to do like, Ohio state, Alabama? Hey, next man up for sure. You know what I mean? So, yes, you're you're right.

But where they're at is they've got to get

Phil:[00:52:21] that. It's gotta be a both/and right. I think you have natural, but as we know, if you're doing something that's out of your natural lane. You will burn out at some point, right? you'll you have to adjust and you will burn out at some point.

Most likely.

Toriono:[00:52:35] no, no, no, I don't think so. Cause it depends on your motivation. Cause I've seen plenty of pilots, they get on the technical because they get so much satisfaction out of it, but it's not their wheelhouse. So like, they're like, look, this is not my thing, but I love this.

And that's why I was saying that hunger and that passion, if you can find a way, like now, now. Let me back up. So I deal with a lot of aftermarket folks unsigned folks, people [00:53:00] that are restarting their careers. So this is what I have to be good at. like when people come to me, they're like, look, this guy was in the military.

He got drafted. He was great at in Europe he's 18, 19. He's like Grand old man. He's not grand old man. The problem is. It's ageism, and I'm like, look, I said, why don't you do this? Here's how you can restart it. Here's how we'll help you, in an aftermarket sort of way, get him up to where he needs to be.

So yeah, you're right. But, what it does is with DISC and video analysis and all those other things, you can help that person pick a new position, be effective in another way, because they may have to step up. in the FAA cup or whatever, they may have to, the first person sold the other person's on loan or, call it up the national duty or injured.

And now the sudden you're dealing with your third, fourth, fifth string  Look at Klopp. And Klopp's philosophy is, look, if you won't do what I need you to do, we've got to find something else for you to do. He doesn't wanna deal with it. He doesn't care about personality, you know, cause at that level

Phil:[00:53:54] Again, it's not perfect science. It's an art, there's a both/and. It's an art in the midst of, science as with [00:54:00] anything else, but if you have a sprinter who is not going to be able to run miles and miles and miles, you're not going to put them at center mid, You're just not going to do it.

Toriono:[00:54:09] Unless you adjust your techniques.

Phil:[00:54:11] Well, unless you change the way a center mid plays where they're playing just 10.

Toriono:[00:54:15] Maybe box to box.

Phil:[00:54:17] But that's what I'm saying is if, if you're a full of true box to box center med, you're going to struggle if you're not a long distance guy. It just is because I am not a long distance guy and I last about three and a half minutes playing center mid.

So that's the reality, but I can play striker all day long because I can make the runs. I can do that, then I can take a breath. And so you just need to know your personnel, but, and I think that personality is underestimated in that. That's all I'm saying here. and I think that, as you said, when you get good mentors in there, when you get people coming in behind them and training them up to be, Hey, you know what, here's the reality of it.

As you talked about with pilots, if you have all that technical and they're a high I personality, [00:55:00] okay. Details may not be their thing at that point, but I'm a high I personality who was in a law firm for eight years. You need to be very detail oriented. Now I had to find a way to make it fun. I didn't realize that's what I was doing, but that's what pilots have to do too.

They have to figure out a way to make that fun or else they won't be able to last in that. okay, I'm going to geek out in this and I'm just going to have a blast with this. Right. And that's the way it is. And the same way, if you're kind of a, laissez faire kind of laid back, S personality loves the status quo and they put you at striker.

You gotta figure out a way within your's. Usually what they'll do is say. Okay, I'm fast and I can shoot. And so the best I can be for my team is to be able to score goals. So that's what I'm going to do right now. It's a very different motivation

Toriono:[00:55:50] Or create assists.

Phil:[00:55:50] From. Right, or create assists. It's a very different motivation from that high D that Zlatan Ibrahimovic guy.

Right. Who really just wants to get a bunch of goals on his [00:56:00] stat sheet. That's his driver. The S will be and Messi is probably more of an S if I had to guess. I could be wrong on that, but that's a guy who is saying, okay, the best for my team is for me to do this and I'm going to do it. And I'm just going to make people look silly because that's going to make my team better. And neither is wrong. Neither is bad. Both are, both are great and both teams need both. but for coaches to understand that and to understand the motivation and understand the driver is absolutely critical. any last thoughts on that before we hit the last couple of questions

Toriono:[00:56:32] Yeah. I think that's very very good what you're saying, because I, totally agree. and all I was getting at was when you're mentored by the different players, what you'll see is that they will figure out how to make it worth their while they will figure out. And that's the point of it.

And that's what I mean by getting the most out of them. Cause I totally agree with you because what people don't understand is this, it only takes a couple of good trades or a couple bad trades to mess up the chemistry in your locker room. And if you were [00:57:00] looking for, Oh, your star player, I've seen plenty of teams go down in the national state let alone European competitions because, Oh, they were a great striker.

But what happened when Johnny just wasn't hitting the net? Well, did he p and it's everybody's fault. And now everybody's like, Oh, now we're really, you don't see Messi and those guys doing that, and that's what I was saying. The thing is, is you're right.

Because as an insurance policy, you better know how to very rapidly get the reserves and getting those Academy. And third, fourth, fifth, sixth, eighth string people going because. once you win a national title, whatnot, now people want to poach, but at the bigger level, we want to buy your players.

 Phil:[00:57:40] Man, we can go on. For hours and hours, if we want to, but we know that is not how this works.

So, I have a couple of last questions I want to throw at you, how have you used the lessons that you've learned directly from the game of soccer in your leadership and your marriage or parenting really outside the football pitch?

Toriono:[00:57:58] Well, [00:58:00] everything applies. So what I love with what you were talking about, and I forgot to mention, the last book I had was Jeff Olson, The Slight Edge. One thing I'll tell you is this. quickly Mastering A Slight Edge chapter eight.

so it was a neat little quote it resist definition, yet can be instantly recognized. It comes in many variations. You have follow certain unchanged laws. What I love about. This is all she talks about trouble is that we have a few, if any maps that guide us on the journey, or even to show us how to find the path, the modern world in fact can be viewed as a prodigious conspiracy against mastery.

We're continually bombarded with promises of immediate gratification, instant success, and fast, temporary relief. All of which lead in exactly the wrong direction. George Leonard on mastery.  Slight Edge Jeff Olson. So how I've used it as this. we forget that sport was made basically to defend against to prepare you for something. Some people would say, Hey, it prepares you for war. Some would say it's [00:59:00] diplomacy. Like it's very good when you watch different national teams able to battle it on the field and leave it on the field and, inspired and whatnot, as opposed to those countries going to war.

One thing that I I've learned is this. Mentorship is effective. Learning yourself. It's a great place where you can do challenges  and improve yourself. So for me, I use football just as a vehicle to help different disenfranchise people or folks who want to accomplish their goals and dreams. I helped them use as a vehicle to do that. And all the lessons are the same because here's the thing at the end of the day, you have a life. And if your level is not up there, well, then you're going to do everything you can to improve your level and compete wherever you're comfortable.

So the idea is this. If you're playing non-league well, you're still developing. You're still playing, but you also have a job, a wife, a husband, so you still have all of those things, kids. So you're dealing with bosses. Maybe you got investments, maybe you have bills. So [01:00:00] all of those experiences apply. And it's more like an overlay just over your situation. So what I've done is this to be the best person that I can be and be most effective. I use the DISC to make sure that I'm able to really understand myself and then look at where the other person is at and then make the adjustments because I want them to get their goals. I don't want us to just sit there and we had a good talk, and then, plus I don't take for granted that we're not here forever. I've seen people, they don't understand mentorship. I love the mentorship aspect of this game because the folks that had are mentored and they have the drive and determination, I've seen them 95% of the time crush the kid with talent, because right now most of my players that I'm working with outside of the Academy and all that, that are in the pipeline, the 95% of the players that I'm working with are the ones that, yeah, they were all American.

They were everything back then. Nobody now, there, not, not nobody, but it's just, they didn't [01:01:00] get there, and whether it was because they didn't develop or whatever, or however what I've seen a lot of it is. They didn't have the right mentorship because it's not what you know, it is who, you know, because you and I both know, look, I can get you over to England, but while I'm worried about two things.

One, they're going to be worried about your level. And two, I'll be worried about my reputation, because if you go over there and you're garbage, Well now I've liquidated. The other 20,000 kids I could recommend because you're, Phil's not picking up my calls, so no worries. We'd be like, we're getting all, all David's.

Oh Lord. Yeah. Did he send us that guy that kicked himself in the face? Yeah. We'll call them back in a competitive market. so, that's what I've learned and applied and what's nice is the relationships are enriched. Our folks are getting their goals. Our investors are happy. because I'm able to talk to them and address their fears and concerns.

And it's not this, it's not this most folks where I come from, they've been burned. You know, so they know if they put their money with me, they're like, Oh, we get the business plan. We see the results. [01:02:00] Hey, I'm a little nervous about this, this and this. How can we address it? And we can work with it as a team.

And then at the other end, I'm happy that we're able to save lives. like right now, the different things we're working with orphan care, we're able to touch lives in different countries, but also even The people that are here that may be a dual citizen, Like I said, we're, we're having a lot of success there in Africa and other places working on a South London program, And that's what I'm excited about. So basically I've taken basically how your grandmother raised you. That's all we need to do. That's all they're talking about on Sunday That's all your coach wants your teacher, do your best, do your best learn. so all those lessons. really enrich my life and allow, me to enrich other people's lives, whether it's financially, whether it's physically, mentally, whatever we're working on and what they get out of it.

So that's what I've applied. But the best thing that has allowed me to do that. I know it's kinda, out there in the ether, but that matters because the results. Results come when you have your chi, right? If you [01:03:00] will, you know what I mean?

If you're just distracted or whatnot, you're not going to get results. You're not, you're not going to be, you're not going to get the maximum effectiveness out of anything, because think about it, you're doing it alone. And you're one person, how effective can you be? Because life is not a fair fight. It is about my team versus your team.

And if you're an individual you're going to lose, you're not going to beat me. how can you, you're one person. Doesn't work.

Phil:[01:03:26] Yeah, there was a lot in there. I think that the things that I pulled out of there that you just said was like really mentorship. And I think that the mentorship that happens in the soccer teams, something you said earlier reminded me of Ted Lasso.

Have you seen Ted Lasso on Apple TV?

Toriono:[01:03:39] Yes, I love it.

Phil:[01:03:40] Reminded me of it. When you're talking about the older guy in the locker room, right? Roy Kent, they're in the locker room coming in to be able to, and Ted lasso saw that. I mean, the leadership lessons in that show are phenomenal, but to see Ted Lasso sayin' that's the guy, that's the one.

And that's the guy that you're talking about. that one, that older guy who can come in and walk alongside, and that mentorship is critical in [01:04:00] life as well in the lives of our children and the lives of our family and in business to be able to have that with your, you know, Great leaders will raise up their successor as they're leading.

Right. Those are all principles that you're talking about there. and then just the principle of, it's not what, you know, it's who, you know, I mean, and that in the credibility, like you talked about there, the importance of when you refer somebody, you're putting your credibility on the line. And so I'm going to tell you on both sides of it, first of all, if you're referring somebody, make sure you believe in them.

And make sure it's legitimate and not just because you've known them and they're your cousin's friend or whatever, like you better know them and you better, you know, I don't refer anyone to anyone unless I know them. And I know not only are they a great player, but do they have great character because they will represent you and you represent them as well.

So if they don't respect you Toriono, it's not going to mean a whole lot when you say this is a great kid. But if they respect you and you say, this is not only a great guy. Yeah. He's [01:05:00] a really, really good player, but this is a kid you want on your team because he's got character that will actually impact others.

And if you say it and they respect you, that's going to go a long way. Right. But. the one kid you send, who you say has great character, and then they go off and they do things like I'm not going to name any names, but a couple of little English boys in Iceland, you do stuff like that. You're getting, you're getting a phone call then you're saying, what? Did you know that?

And you go, well, you know, they can't put it all on you, but at the same time, were there any warning signs that you knew? And if, even if there weren't, it affects your credibility. Yeah. And it, it puts a ding and you get a little black mark and maybe they'll give you another shot. But if you, it might be two strikes you're out.

Right. It might not even be three. anyway, that's what I kind of got there. And I tell you what, man, those principles, if you didn't write those down, write them down. and if you don't already know them, Learn what we're talking about. Cause those are those two things there are critical. And I can tell you that from coaching soccer, I can tell you that from being in a law firm, I can tell you that from running a nonprofit, and I can tell you that from being a parent, [01:06:00] being involved in all kinds of different organizations, I don't care what you're doing.

Those principles apply absolutely 100%. So I'm glad that you talked about those couple of things.  with that, we're going to call this another show. I just want to thank you for being a part of it. Thank you for all you're doing. Thank you for taking the time to do this Toriono. Thank you for your friendship and work that we're doing together.

Folks out there again we'll have it in the show notes, how to get ahold of Toriono. So if you missed it at the beginning of the episode, we'll put that in the, show notes there. So you, you won't miss it. We'll have. The other things that he's talked about, we'll have some information on DISC.

If you want to get more of that, if you want to go through the training and have us coach you, just reach out to us and we'll love to be able to do that with you, whether you're a individual with an organization, or you're a coach of a team college pro youth, whatever level.

If you're saying, Hey, I want to use this to help my family. drop me an email, phil@howsoccerexplainsleadership.com. You can connect with Toriono as well.  Toriono, thank you for all that you're doing. I just [01:07:00] really appreciate you.

Toriono:[01:07:01] Yeah, thank you, Phil. I appreciate that.

Phil:[01:07:03] All right. So again, thank you. Toriono. Thank you folks for this download. We went a bit longer than expected, so I will not take any more of your time today. I just want to thank you for this download, thank you for being a part of this conversation. And I do hope that you take everything that you're learning on this show and you're using it to help you be a better leader for you to help you to really understand how the beautiful game does explain life and leadership.

Thanks a lot. Have a great week.