Learning and Leading from the Back with Skip Gilbert, CEO of US Youth Soccer and Former NASL Goalkeeper

Phil: Welcome back to How Soccer Explains Leadership. Thanks again for being a part of the conversation. Thank you for just really engaging the conversation and, we, we mean that when we say it. So I hope that you are taking, taking what you learned from this and using it in your life. I, I'm Phil Darke, you're a host, and with me is my brother Paul Jobson, who, you know, you wouldn't know it unless you're watching, but you, you probably can see it on his face.

He's getting ready to, to head down to Guatemala to do some cool stuff with Warrior Way. So Paul, what's, what's going on with that?

[00:00:31] Paul: Yeah, man, we are, uh, About to hit our trip. It's crazy. It's already here. We kind of woke up the other day and realized we were just a few days away from, from taking off.

We're excited about it. We're taking a group of 32 down to Guatemala. We, we serve the, areas around Antigua. The village is there and we've created a soccer tournament. Uh, a lot of these kids have never even left their villages, and we bust 'em in. We play an all day tournament. We disciple with them, we mentor them, we celebrate with them the goals and the, you know, we agonize through the defeats, uh, with them.

And then we celebrate with a [00:01:00] meal afterwards. And, uh, just really excited about getting down there and, and get back with our, our, our second family, in Guatemala. So, you know what it's like you travel, you travel to Latin America as well and have just gotten back from a trip. So, uh, I know you can, can relate a bit, but we're excited

[00:01:14] Phil: about it.

Yeah. 100%. No, that's so cool. I'm so excited to hear, hear all that. Uh, all that goes on, all that, the community. I can't wait to hear about the tournament. Just seeing the joy on the kids' faces and the families coming together and being able to just start doing life together, like you said, they might have the kid.

Not only have the kids knock gone outside their villages, oftentimes the families haven't either. And so to be able to bring them together, start doing life together, amazing to see what can happen through that, as we've seen in Ireland, soccer communities throughout, throughout the us and, you know, and, and with that, What a what?

Better segue. Sometimes it just segue happen. Great segue. You know, you know Paul, sometimes it just comes. So you're, this is one of this. You're really, really good at this. Yeah, really good at, yeah. So, so, uh, today we have with us the CEO of United States Youth Soccer, who is bringing together soccer communities [00:02:00] throughout the, the country.

And then, I know I'm wearing my shirt here. I'm trying to do this well here. Look at that. I got the, uh, it's from a few years ago. As you can see, it's worn a little bit. I actually, you know, we're, we're recording this on July 5th, and, uh, I, it's the only red, white, and blue shirt I had that I could find. So I wore it yesterday on July 4th as well.

So I'm just, you know, I, I'm wearing it for this interview. I'm, I'm just, sometimes I wear shirts two days in a row and I, I'm taking after my 12 year old, I guess, but that's not what we're talking about today. The shirt is cool. It's from my daughter got to play in the national championships back in, I think it was 2015.

Amazing experience. I know. US Youth Soccer's doing some incredible things around the country. We get to talk about that today with Skip Gilbert and Skip. How are you doing today?

[00:02:43] Skip: I'm doing just great Phil, and appreciate you and Paul having me on the show. Yeah,

[00:02:48] Phil: absolutely. Absolutely. So, you know, skip, I, I've gotten the, the, I've had the pleasure of being able to talk with you a little bit to be able to, just to share our love for [00:03:00]Goalkeeping, which, you know, Paul, again, sorry, there's been a couple of these goalkeeping, you know, things where you're kind of the, the third wheel to the conversation, but that's okay.

You know, cuz we're gonna talk real though about some of that. I keep it real though. I keep it real. That's true, that's true. but you know, we, we have so much else other things that I was so excited to get, get this, conversation on and we, we always like to start with our guests. Just hearing your story, just hearing how you developed your passion for soccer and leadership, how you ended up with USYS and, and just really what you're excited about.

[00:03:31] Skip: Sure. Well, it's a lot to unpack on that one, but I, I, I got my. roots and soccer fairly early for someone my age. I started playing back in third, fourth grade, which, you know, way back when most of us didn't, most people didn't even know what the sport was. And as a matter of fact, the first time I played was in a game that we went out from school, was thrown out onto a field and said, play.

And I had no idea, had never seen soccer [00:04:00] before, and suddenly there was a ball at my feet and I thought, Hmm, what do I do with this? And so, you know, you kind of work your way through it. But over the next couple of years, um, I, I drifted into the goal. I decided playing, being a goalkeeper was a lot more my style, my fun, my desire, and I stayed with it right on through my entire career.

[00:04:24] Phil: And so how did you end up like, I mean, I know you didn't have like this, oh, it's the obvious route to be the CEO of US U soccer, right? There was just kind of a windy road to get there. Can you just kind of take us through that a little bit? And I always liked, I always love hearing these stories and love sharing with others because, you know, sometimes you think, oh, well, here's the way you do something to get to where you want to go.

But sometimes it's just, you know, uh, you, you're led there through different, different means. So can you just share that path?

[00:04:52] Skip: Sure. Well, you know, I went through college thinking that I was gonna play in the NASL. That was my goal. That was my dream. That [00:05:00] was everything I was looking forward to, uh, was able to actually achieve that by, by work playing with the Tampa Bay Rowdies.

Um, unfortunately, and I jokingly say my class helped kill the NASL, um, is that shortly therein, that the NASL folded, and that was the time between the NASL and when Major League Soccer took off. So I. Traveled around the country. I played indoor a little bit. I tried what was, I think at one point, the NASL and at some point it struck me that my parents put way too much money into my education for me to be making a hundred, $150 a week, playing a game I loved.

So I moved to back to, to the New York area, got a job in publishing. And really that was the first step in my career, which was all sales. I was sales and marketing for magazines, like the sporting news, tennis magazine, outside magazine. And from there I jumped into the property side working for groups like USA swimming USA [00:06:00] Triathlon, US Tennis.

And it was in different areas. You know, I went from being a Chief marketing officer, Chief Revenue Officer, the Director of the US Tennis Open. So you get your event background in that side. So when I saw that, That the CEO of US Youth came available. I actually called Chris and, and said, why in the world are you leaving such a great role?

, he gave me the, the reasons why and I said, well, is there someone in line for taking your job? And he goes, well, based on your experiences and everything you do, you should. So I threw my hat in the ring and, you know, knocked wood. I was lucky enough to be the last person standing, uh, took the role January of 2020 and really haven't looked back.

[00:06:45] Phil: So, you know, I gotta say taking the role January, 2020, you got quite the intro. A couple months later, a little thing happened that changed the, uh, landscape of everything in the world inc. Including youth soccer. You know, I have a bunch of kids, [00:07:00] uh, as people know who listen to the show, and most of them play youth soccer.

And I know it was impacted, you know, massively. Right. How was that? Like, what was, what was that, how was that like, you know, welcome to the deep end.

[00:07:14] Skip: Well, you know, of all the questions that the board asked me during my interviewing process, not one of them was, well, the world comes to an end, whatcha gonna do with this board?

Um, and so it was really baptism by fire, but it probably the second, third week of, of February, you know, the NBA was at that point starting to close down and there was a, a tournament that was, that was gonna be running in Las Vegas that we were a part of. And I received a call from a mom in Hawaii who said we hear things are happening.

We have a team of kids that are about to get on a plane here in Hawaii for Las Vegas. Please, what should we do? At that point, I made the decision, we gotta start shutting it down. I said, get your kids off [00:08:00] the plane, stay home, and sure enough, that weekend was when a lot of the sports started to pull back, um, leading up to the sort of that, that infamous weekend in March when the whole country really shut down.

But, you know, we started to s you know, systemically close everything down as of February. And then, um, you know, from our perspective, even though the world had come to a stop, you know, being so new in the role, it was a great opportunity to have our organization look in the mirror. What are we doing really well?

And, and I used to preface it, and I still do today. If we were building youth soccer for tomorrow's players today, what would it look like? And if it looks like exactly as it is today, keep going. If we need to make some, some changes to what we're doing, let's make those amendments. And if we are bringing something new and completely different in, let's prepare for that so that when the green light finally shines and we're able [00:09:00] to get back to the game and, and basically to the life we've had always led, um, we'd be ready to go and we, we wouldn't kind of miss a beat.

[00:09:08] Phil: Yeah, no, that's, so that's, that's just, and I, and I, I have to think that your experiences in triathlon swimming, tennis, like, you know, we talk about, not specializing too early in sports playing. Right. But I imagine those experiences taught you a, a lot and just being able to, I think probably even for the, for the pandemics, I mean, nothing will prepare you fully, but just seeing the different ways different people are leading in different sports probably helped you, um, in a lot of ways and probably has continued to, is that, is that an assumption?

That's correct.

[00:09:42] Skip: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Being able to, to lean on what other sports have done, are doing will do, you know, sort of the philosophy of how sports drive themselves. I mean, I go back to my days at USA swimming and, and it's something that, that I brought here, which is there's three real [00:10:00] components.

Build the base, promote the sport, achieve, achieve, sustained competitive success. And so the reality is if you're not building the base of your P player pyramid, that's the root of all evil and the, the start of all success. And so by doing that, and then for sports like swimming where you're constantly trying to stay in front of people to say, learn to swim and, you know, embrace the sport, become competitive, you know, then you're gonna end up being as they are the best in the world.

And so for, for the sport of soccer, you know, I don't think we have a growth issue, because just about every kid that's six years old is gonna kick a soccer ball. You know, our big issue and, and with, you know, the, the, the, um, club, world Cup coming, the World Cup coming for men, hopefully for women, the Olympics coming.

All of these great international competitions coming to our country. The legacy has to be how do we keep kids playing? You know, that's the real Achilles heel. It's not can we get [00:11:00] them into this sport? It's how do we keep them. Mm-hmm. And that's the really been the, the focus that we've been, you know, really honing in on, you know, for really the last couple of years.

Yeah.

[00:11:11] Paul: Yeah, that's, that's something that Skip, even in, in the communities that I work in and serve just within our local area here that, that we're, we're working on as well. And I know we're gonna dive into that a little bit deeper, but before we dive into just more of what you do and why you more of what you do and how you've gotten to that, I'd love to hear more about you and your why and what makes you tick, what makes you as the decisions you make as a leader.

Uh, what are, what are the processes you go through to make those decisions? And what is really, really what I'm asking is what is your personal why? What is kinda your life statement that kinda keeps you in, in the lane that you need to be in to make the decisions you need to be, to be, to be able to sleep at night?

Sometimes, I guess you'd say,

[00:11:51] Skip: yeah, when I'm staring at the ceiling at three in the morning, you know, what's, what's driving it? You know, from my perspective, you know, my, it's really, and the [00:12:00] game has taught me this, you know, soccer for as elaborate and as beautiful as it is, it's one of the more simple games out there.

All you need is a ball. Um, you don't even need shoes. You know, most people will play with shorts and a shirt on. But even that, you know, it's, it's such a simple game and that really is how I kind of embody my life. Keep it simple. I. You know, there's, there's always a direct path. You know, if you've, if you're transparent, if you're honest with yourself and with others, you pretty much know the way you have to go.

And if you stay true to that, um, and you, and you have, and this is where, you know, my background in sales, marketing, event operations, executive management, when you pull it all together, it's like wor, you know, being a goalkeeper on the team. You see the entire world in front of you, and you see how your players have to be positioned to be able to drive the offense, you know, the, the offensive side of the equation, but then also be prepared for, you [00:13:00] know, what's the other team gonna do?

What are some of those outliers that might, you know, kind of get in the way of things to be able to defend. And so if you do that and you stay true to it, you know, generally speaking, knock wood, success comes.

[00:13:15] Paul: I like that. I think, I think sometimes we can get, we can overcomplicate things. Right. And I would think with your, your breadth of experience across different sports, I'm sure that not only does it help you at times to make decisions, but I'm sure sometimes there's gotta be some, some accumulation of knowledge that can get in the way.

Is that, is that the case sometimes you think? Or is it

[00:13:33] Skip: Sure. You know, it is. I mean, when I, when I first joined U S A triathlon, um, I, I barely knew what it was. I mean, I had to call friends of mine saying, what in God's name is this sport? And, and tell me about it. And they would say, and why? And why did, why, why do they do this?

And especially as you go, you know, for the Ironman, you know, you're swimming two miles, you're biking 112, and then you run a marathon and it's like, seriously. But the interesting thing [00:14:00]about that is, It also shows the beauty of multi-sport play. You know, most kids grow up, they run, they swim, they ride a bike.

And from that standpoint, you know, it's a gentle reminder for me that we can't get into the mindset where the only sport a kid should play is soccer that comes in time as you age up. But if we think that we're gonna take, and we're starting to get there, and actually we really are there when we start thinking that a 6, 7, 8 year old has to be on a premier team, getting themselves ready so they can play with Aston Villa by the time they're 18, uh, you know, we've, we've really kind of gone off the rails.

And we kind of have to have, as I call it, you know, we, and we've, we see it in business today that everybody's saying there needs to be a correction in, you know, this sector, in this industry. And I believe there has to be a, a, a correction in youth sports, not just youth soccer, but in youth sports in particular.[00:15:00]

And so, again, keeping it very simple, we have to remember, it's a game. We also have to remember that these are kids and they have to grow up to embrace the game so that it lives up to our, our vision, which again, we, we altered once I got here, which is to bring communities together through the power of soccer, making lifelong fans of the game.

And if you're eight years old and you're being driven to play, be that you know player that's gonna play an MLS or the Premier League or whatever, when you're 17, 18, 90% of those kids are gonna burn out. And if you're no longer a part of the sport, how are you gonna be a lifelong fan of the game if you feel disenchanted with the sport disenfranchised and simply left out to dry?

So we have to make that correction to keep those kids playing. I love that. And, and folks

[00:15:52] Paul: go back, rewind that. Listen to it again. You're, it's the CEO of US Youth, youth Soccer, telling you, uh, that [00:16:00] not to, not to specialize your kid at six years old. You know, it's something we talk about on this, this show quite a bit and get people's different opinions on it.

But I love that and I love that the goal is to make lifelong fans, right? Not, not lifelong soccer players necessarily, or professionals, but to make lifelong fans of the game. I know that I probably wouldn't be, wouldn't be playing soccer if my dad wasn't a fan of soccer. He was not a soccer player, he was a fan of soccer.

And that led him to say, well, my kids wanna play. They need a coach. I'll coach now. My life has been directly affected in a great way because of his love for the game. And I think you're right. There's so many kids who, uh, are being burned out. Families are being burned out by the game because of, of some of the things that are going on that we're allowing to happen within our sport.

So I love hearing you say that, Skip, and something else to add on that.

[00:16:46] Skip: Yo, you know, it's, and it's interesting, again, going back to the why, uh, of why is that so important and I'll use my experience at, at tennis. Um, I'm standing at center Court at the US Open, my first tournament and [00:17:00] I'm with our Chief medical Officer and Andy Roddick, uh, a great American player, top five in the, in the world at one point, actually top 10, he never cracked the top five.

he's warming up. And so I looked at Brian and I said, why is it that our women are so great, but our men can't crack the top five? And he said, you tell me. He goes, look at, look at Andy. And you tell me the reason. And I've watched Andy, and if you've seen him, you know, overhand, backhand, forehand, you know, world class.

And he goes, keep going. What's, what's the reason? And I watched him running around and I said, not a world class athlete. You know? Now granted, Andy's a great athlete, and yes, he's world-class, but when you compare him within his ecosystem, Novak Djokovic, Andy Murray, Roger Federer, you know, uh, um, uh, Nadal, um, Raphael, Nadal, you know, all four, all of those guys, they started playing soccer.

Then they went into track and then they played tennis. Andy only played tennis from the age of[00:18:00] six. And so he wasn't muscular skeletal wise. He wasn't able to correct and check and go from point A to point B and back in explosive speed and he just wasn't able to stay at that level. And that's the different of multi-sport growth and, and the foundation.

And so the reality is, if all we really want all of our kids to stay in the sport, we want them to have as broad a view as possible to take in as many different sports as they can and then really go with the sport you love. And if we're forcing them to be at six years old, a soccer player, How many of those kids are really gonna want to be soccer players and have it in their heart that that's really where they wanna end up.

And the US Olympic Committee just said it really well a couple of months ago, where when they talked about how broken youth sport is, they outlined that you need two distinct pathways. One for the elite kids, the kids that are gonna go and they're gonna try to be professional or play for [00:19:00] the national team.

You know? And again, only a certain subset of that group will make it. But then there has to be a second pathway, and that's for all of the kids that are gonna be playing the the bar leagues when they're 40. And that's the pathway that most sports fail to recognize or support. And that's why we lose so many kids because they don't see the fact that, Hey, I could be playing in the same league my dad plays, or my mom plays, so I just wanna go out and play for fun.

I think that's,

[00:19:32] Paul: that's awesome. I think we as, as people, as kids and adults, we get caught up in the, the Tiger Woods phenomenon where the players that, that they've been the specialized player their whole lives and they've, they've turned out to be the best in the world. But those are the one-offs.

Uh, there's a book by David Ept Epstein, it's called Range. Uh, and it talks a lot about those different things. A great book, uh, it talks just about this specifically about specialization and, the folks who have done it and why that's just so ridiculous that they've been able to do it. It's [00:20:00] not even worth really going for.

But it's, it's an amazing book. I would recommend that to those that are talking about specialization and the, the pros and, and cons of it all. But, , see if, I love that. I'm sure we'll tap into that a little bit. As we go through a little bit more, but, uh, through your, through your career especi specifically, uh, in, in the game of soccer, were there any defining moments or one specific defining moment that has really, kind of pointed you in the direction of leadership that you're in?

And maybe some things you've kind of brought through, you brought with you through your, through your professional

[00:20:29] Skip: career here now? You know, there's probably, I'm, I'm sure there's quite a few, you know, I mean, again, being a goalkeeper, um, you learn early on that you have to be a leader. I mean, I, I remember back when I was playing at, at, in high school, you know, I'd make a save or I'd come out and take a cross outta the air and my teammates would say, Be vocal, you need to tell us what we're doing.

You know, I was very, I'm, you know, sort of an introvert by nature, and so I, I [00:21:00] wasn't very vocal and a couple, and, and again, two of our best players on the team, you know, pulled me aside and said, you need to have, find your voice. You need to absolutely tell folks, well, we know you can do it. We know you're gonna be there for us, but you need to help us.

And once that started kicking in, you know, then you start to see kind of that world in front of you and it makes your job so much easier, you know? And so from a goalkeeper perspective, you know, there's, there's nothing worse than having to turn around and pull the ball out of the back of the net. Um, but having that vision, having that confidence, you know, really helps set the stage that you're gonna have a lot of success.

But no matter how good you are, There's always gonna be a ball coming at the back of the net. You know, there hasn't been a team that has gone an entire season and shut out every opponent that they've come across, you know, and or every practice you keep the, you know, the, the stakes clean. So from [00:22:00] that standpoint, from early on, you know, you know that no matter what you do, at some point you're gonna let one go in.

You can't hang your head, you can't blame somebody else. You need to stamp up and you look at it and go, okay, what do I do? What do I, what should I have done? And you move forward from that, you know? And that kind of, to me, I get a, I I, I've never been a goalkeeper that would stand and yell at my teammates, you know, even if a, a guy completely dropped the ball on something and, you know, it ultimately ended up in the back of the net.

Well, you know, that happens. We all have, we all make mistakes. But you can't, you can't belittle the kid right there because you got, he knows what happened and you just gotta say, all right, let's do it the next time. And that's the same in business, you know, growing up and, and kind of getting my teeth, you know, in, in, in a corporate environment.

And for, for-profit companies in the, in the eighties, you know, we've all had bosses that would just rip your head off. [00:23:00] And nine times outta 10, you walk outta there not thinking, oh boy, I'm gonna go out and do it. You know, much better. You know, it takes a hit to your confidence and you kind of figure out other ways to be able to get there.

so again, it, it, the sport itself has, has certainly taught me a lot about, you know, both personal and professional, just how to act. Yeah.

[00:23:20] Phil: You know, and that, that, that touches on really, I mean obviously the goalkeeping stuff, I mean, you, you talked about a couple of the things there just as far as lessons that, you know, I think when your, when your teammates came and said, Hey, you need to, you need to be more vocal.

You know, how many, how many goalkeepers have I trained that that's the hardest thing for them is to be vocal. They can get down the, the, technique. They can get down the footwork, they can get down the ball skills, they can get down all that stuff. But being vocal there, they're just like, but I'm reserved.

I'm like, well then figure out how to be vocal. Cuz if you're not, you're not gonna be a complete goalkeeper. and, , and you know, and I think with that, Comes life lessons, [00:24:00] understanding. But I you've touched on a couple of the life lessons, some of the business lessons that you've learned, being a goalkeeper.

Are there there any others that you have that, uh, you wanna share? I know, I mean, I, we could probably talk about this for a whole lot longer than we have time for today, but, uh, what are a couple others, other things that, uh, that you've learned from playing, specifically from playing the position of goalkeeper that, uh, you know, we can talk about a little bit deeper into some of the things you've just mentioned as well, but what are, what are a few of those things?

[00:24:28] Skip: You know, again, I think, at least from my perspective, you know, that that emotional rollercoaster that so many people ride and, and I found playing that you can't celebrate off the charts and you can't get angry off the charts. That you really have to keep that, that emotions in check. And I've. Learn that.

And, and as I've gone through my business career, you know, to try to be as even keeled as [00:25:00]possible. And, and I'll hear it from people that will say, wow, that just happened. How in the world did you not lose, you know, you lose your mind and, and just completely lose it. And it's like, well, because if you do that, you take your eye off the ball, you know, and you, you, if you get so rattled by something that happens on the field, chances are something's gonna fall through the crack.

And as a goalkeeper, if that happens, you're picking it up behind you, you know, on the back of the net. And so to keep that, that, that emotions in check, no matter whether it's great or it's not, it, it just helps solidify everything. And I think it also helps those around you have the confidence that you've got things under control, that you're, you know, and they know that, you know, especially those that you work with or that work for you, you know, they realize that, you know, at the end of the day, You don't have to win every single time.

You know, there's always gonna be a goal scored, and therefore that gives them the confidence to [00:26:00] perhaps push a little bit further, you know, to look a little bit deeper into an issue, you know, and how do we potentially work things? So, you know, here at US youth that we keep more kids in the game. We develop better referee, not better referees, but more referees that can be better at deescalating in today's world.

Some of the emotions that they're hearing out on the, on the, you know, on the sidelines. So when you put that together, I think that's, you know, probably one of the, one of the big focal points that, you know, I've had to deal with. Yeah.

[00:26:34] Phil: You know, one of the things that I've always talked about as a keeper is, is similar, and I think it jumps off of what you've been talking about the last, the last couple answers, but just the idea of a goalkeeper needing to be stable.

When I'm coaching the keepers, it's, Hey, stay positive because, you know, you are, you're setting the tone from the back. And also I think the idea of, as you talked about, the ball will go in the back of the net. How many times have you heard a parent say, or a kid [00:27:00] say, I don't wanna play keeper, or I don't want my kid to play keeper because, you know, there's so much pressure and everything's riding on them and I'm go, there's 11 people on the team.

It has to go through 11 players to get to the keeper for, or 10 players to get to the keeper. And, you know, everything happens as a team and I think as a goalkeeper, the lesson I think is stronger, at least for me. I recognize that teamwork concept so much being a keeper and being able to see the whole field, as I've said to them, you're the only player that sees the whole field, the whole game, unless somebody gets behind you with that.

Okay, let's, you can always talk about that, but most of the time you're the only player, so you should be leading. But also you can, you can see and hopefully you can be able to help your teammates be better. You can be, as my, my high school teammates would say to me, Phil, when you're not playing keeper, there were a few games where I played only a half or didn't play for whatever reason.

They said, we feel like part of our brain is gone. [00:28:00] Because you are helping us to see behind us, you're helping us to know the whole field. And I think that goes into leadership because as I've been leading organizations, how can I help all of my people be better? How can I help them see things they don't see?

How can I help them understand things? They may not be able to see the full picture because their backs to it or because they aren't able to look to the side because they're, you know, so whatever the case may be. And so, um, that's something that I, I know that I've seen, as, as far as being a keeper as well.

and I think you just set the tone. So what, any, any thoughts on that?

[00:28:36] Skip: Yeah, and I, I, when you look at parents that say, oh my gosh, why would we want our kid to be a keeper? You know, I mean, and the reality is from, at least from my perspective, and I played many years, I. I, I never, I never came off with an injury.

I never, you know, I was able to, you know, maneuver through the box and put my body in positions that probably [00:29:00] should never really do. And again, if you have the confidence to dive at someone's feet or come be able to take a ball outta the air and you know you're gonna be hit by two or three people at the exact same time, you know that that's part of the challenge and that's part of the beauty of that position.

You know, and again, I think if I had, if I have discussions with parents and they're saying, well, should I let my, my son or daughter be a goalkeeper? It's like, You just addressed it in the wrong way. It shouldn't be your decision where your kid plays. Your kid needs to understand all 11 positions on the field and let them decide where to play.

Because if you say to a, to someone who just naturally wants to be a goalkeeper, that you're gonna play a and be forward, chances are they're gonna be one of those kids who are gonna leave the game. Because they're just not gonna be completely fulfilled with what they're getting out of the sport. And so from that [00:30:00] perspective, you know, the parent needs to put their own idiosyncrasies, their fears, their anxieties.

They need to kind of just bite their lip and, and, and actually ask their kids, what do you like about, you know, being upfront, being in midfield, being a a defender, what do you like about being in goal? And realistically in the way I transitioned it, I mean I started as a forward and the way I transitioned it was I, before practice, I would just jump in goal just for the fun of it because I thought it was great.

And so I knew I was not a, I wasn't gonna be our goalkeeper. Cuz our goalkeeper, you know, I was short at, whenever I was fifth grade and our goalkeeper was pretty tall and so, but the coaches saw that I loved it so much and I'd be diving all over the place and making saves that in one game. I think it was my fifth grade year.

A, a ball went over our keeper's head and he just watched it and suddenly the coach went, skip, you're in. And I went in, never looked back. So,

[00:30:59] Phil: [00:31:00] Yeah, I, I'd like to do a study on how many keepers used to be forwards and particularly st strikers. I know that was my story as well. Mine was a little different.

I had asthma, so I, I struggled with running as a kid. I still struggled with running as an adult, even though I outgrew asthma. So I don't know if it was the asthma or just me, but, um, but then I became keeper and just loved it. And to your point, and, but what would you say too, to, I think it's not just parents, it's also coaches.

I've heard coaches say, I don't want, I, I need them in the field, even though the kid's like, I wanna play keeper, I want to play keeper. No, we need our best athletes in the field. And we, we just, you know, keeper what I, and I'm, I just look at 'em, go. If you talk to the best managers in the world, they're starting with a keeper and a center back.

Like, if you don't have those positions, you're gonna be hurting, you're gonna give up soft goals, and other things are gonna be going on. But what would you say to those coaches, who are, who are saying those type things?

[00:31:49] Skip: I'd say, are you on the field to play to win or are you on the field to develop the best players?

Because if you're on the field to develop players, and again, make fans [00:32:00] for life, you have to take into the equation of where you're positioning players, where they feel the most comfortable. And if a kid truly, even though they may be the best athlete, you know, out there, if the kid truly wants to play in goal, chances are they're gonna bring more to that position and to the team than they would if you put 'em up, you know? And again, at some point, sure, they might be faster, they might have a harder shot, but at some point you're gonna start taking on competition. They're gonna kind of take that kid outta the game and the kid ultimately is gonna start to take themselves out of the game cuz they're not playing the position that they truly feel that they should be in.

You know? And, and, and sure there's a difference if, you know, you put 'em in forward or midfield or defender, and sometimes you, you, you shift those things around. But a, a goalkeeper is truly a, a unique skillset because you, you know, again, it wears a different jersey. It's a, it's a, it's a different mentality.

It's a, [00:33:00] it's a different equation to be able to get the best out of a player from that field.

[00:33:05] Phil: Yeah. And the, and the last thing I, I, I just wanna talk to you about this, and it might, I'm sure some of this stuff will come up in the other answers too, just as far as the goalkeeping stuff, since you're a keeper.

But I, I always say to, to any keeper, to play keeper, you gotta have a little bit of crazy in you. What do you think about that?

[00:33:24] Skip: Uh, yeah, you have to have a, you know, and I'll go back, I went to a prep school in New Jersey and my, uh, you know, we'd get report cards and we even get a report card from coaches.

And my sophomore year, um, I went home for Thanksgiving and I s my parents pulled me into the dining room and they were looking at something from Lawrenceville and I thought, oh, this probably isn't gonna end well for me if it's classroom based. And they said, we need to read you this from your c from your, your report card, you know, and I thought, What's it gonna [00:34:00] be?

And it turns out it was from our JV coach and he said that, he said, you know, great things about my goalkeeper, but he said he has absolutely no regard for his own personal safety. And I thought, there we go. I'm doctor again. I'm not looking back. That was a, you know, that was a support that, and, and Fred Gelle who wrote it probably didn't realize that that just turned the green light on for me to say, I am not stopping.

Uh, that's, that's right. And so from that standpoint, yeah, you do, you can't be thinking about, you know, if you get hit or knocked and, oh, you know, oh, this hurts. I mean, it, it's always gonna hurt. You dive 10,000 times, you're just gonna feel it at some time, but, For the true goalkeepers, and I guess I'm one of them, you know, no pain, no gain really, actually.

Yeah. Um, means something because you know, and again, I didn't go out to, to hurt people. I went out because I loved the goal, I loved the game, and Id put myself in positions to get the [00:35:00] ball. Um, and, and again, going back to one other story, I was a, went to the, to the, um, all-Star game in New England. I played up at the University of Vermont and I got into my dorm room before, you know, as we were all coming together.

And my roommate looked at me and he goes, you know, you knocked me out for the season. And I thought, And he, and he went to the University of Massachusetts and we went up for a ball and we collided and I fell on him and I broke three of his ribs and he said, and I thought, do I need to sleep with my eyes open tonight?

And he goes, no, it's a great play. You, you made a great play. It just happened. And I hold no will Will. It was, you know, it is what it is. Uh, but again, those are the things that all goalkeepers have to go through. Yep. Love that.

[00:35:45] Paul: I, I think your, uh, your report card pretty much sums it up. That statement pretty much sums it up.

Yep. What most coaches are looking for in their goal. Maybe all their field players, but they're obviously their goalkeepers. So I, I love that. And that transitions well into. The next question I wanna ask you, skip [00:36:00] you, you've been in the game a a long time and, uh, but through your playing career, you know, who was, who was your, one of your best coaches and what, what made them stand out?

Like why would you identify them as your best coach? Um, cause we have a lot of coaches that listen to this podcast and are all, you know, as coaches, were always formulating who we are and how we can be better. Who are some of the most impactful coaches in your playing career? And what are some things you've held on, uh, from lessons maybe they taught you over the years?

[00:36:26] Skip: Sure. Well, you know, two, two come to mind. One is George Seymour, um, coach from New Jersey. Um, he was coach of Mercer County Select. He's the one that kind of put me on that track to get through ODP and to, with the select team. We only played against the NASL B teams and, and, and adult European teams that came into the tri-state area and, and occasionally some tournaments and state cups.

But he was one of those coach that really didn't say much. You know, he, he sat, and again, back in the, when I [00:37:00] was playing the coach mentality was always directing from the sideline and constantly chattering to your players. He just sat on the, on the bench and occasionally he might say one or two things and I, you know, and to this day of all the games I played for him, I only once reme remember him saying anything that wasn't positive.

And I came off the game at the field. It was a zero zero draw. And he, as I sat down into the bench, he kinda looked at me and he goes, What game are you watching? And I, I was like, what? He goes, I'm watching you, your, your distribution, and you're clearly not watching the same game. And, you know, that was a knock on, you know, just where was I actually distributing the ball when I had it?

And, you know, and again, it was a, a mid-game check that, you know, usually he'll say some things afterwards or he'll incorporate [00:38:00] your weaknesses into the training sessions so that you don't really understand that this was a perceived weakness. You're just going through a training and subconsciously you're getting better at this, that, or the other.

But that's his way of improving the player. And he did that with all of our players. And so many of them from that group went on to play in the N A S L. I mean, he was just phenomenal. And then the other one would be Nick Laar, is Nick Laar. , he was one of the national team coaches and he coached our Eastern Regional team in the, what used to be the national sports festivals.

And again, just, you know, his knowledge of the game, his knowledge of positioning, his knowledge of supporting players was just phenomenal that you felt, you know, you weren't just playing for yourself, but you were playing for him and his vision of what we should do. And again, those two really helped kind of set the stage for me.

[00:38:57] Phil: Yeah, I always, I always love hearing those, just [00:39:00] the coaches and why, why coaches have had impact, you know, as a coach, I know, you know, Paul has, has coached and, and uh, still is, is coaching his, his kids in different ways. But you know, just to hear, it's not one thing that makes a coach great, right?

There are so many different things that coaches bring to the table, which is great cuz we're wired differently. So if everyone had to do the same thing, then only a certain person could be a coach. But the different coaches, as you learn the, the, the keys are to connect with the, the, to the kids and connect with the adults, whatever, whoever you're coaching and, and how can you make them the best they can be.

And if you're seeking to do that, it will shine through. And, um, love hearing that. And I heard that in the, in that, in that response. All right, so, As the CEO of US Youth Soccer, you know, and you've also had other positions that we've talked about in these different sports. But the reality is youth sports has changed a lot since we, since we were all kids.

You know, I think we're all a little different ages, but for the most part we can, we can agree on the fact that [00:40:00] it has changed youth sports in general and youth soccer is no, uh, no different, but there's some good and there's some bad that comes with change. Right. Almost all the time. So what, what are some of the, um, things that you really like about the current state of soccer in the United States?

Youth Soccer in particular, but also as it goes up to the professional ranks and, uh, you know, what are some of the things you might wanna change and, you know, you might have some ability to do that in your position.

[00:40:26] Skip: Sure. You know, I, I mean, from the, from the g I guess the good side, you know, is there are teams, clubs, leagues for everybody.

You know, it doesn't matter where you are. It doesn't really matter your skill level, there's a pathway for you. and so from that standpoint, you know, it, it gets everybody involved in the game and it at least puts choices out there to which direction that they wanna go. You know, for kids that [00:41:00]just wanna play to be social, you know, you can, you can certainly do that to a, to a point.

 But for the kids that wanna play, there's, there's a lot of different options. And that's, it's sort of the benefit and the curse. I think it's, it's a good point. And the fact that, you know, the sport has become so popular that you can see sort of the end game college soccer is, you know, is so much better than it was years ago.

You know, that it's, it's a, it's a true draw. They're also getting a lot more club soccer so that even if you don't wanna spend the time and you really don't want to be a D one player, uh, or, but you're going to a D one school, you can be a club soccer player and have a great experience. And then given what's going on around the world, and certainly with MLS, U S L and W S L at the professional level, it gives kids that aspirational moment.

That if they dream that they wanna be a professional [00:42:00] soccer player, you know, they can see it up close and personal all around the country and, you know, with, with technology around the world to envision what their life might be like if they're able to get to that level. So I think from that standpoint, there's a lot of good.

Yeah.

[00:42:18] Phil: You know, and one of the things we talked about earlier was, you know, one of the, the kind of negative sides is, is kids are either specializing what, what I believe is true early and you, you're too early and you seem to agree with that. But also people are burning out. And I, it might be related, it might not, it might be in the other things, but they're burning out and they're stopped.

They stopped playing. That's, that's the big tragedy to me, I know is cuz I, I've loved this game and I stopped playing in college, but I still love the game. It wasn't, I didn't stop playing cause I hated the game. I stopped playing for, for other reasons. But I think a lot of people are burning out at, I'm, I'm seeing it, 15, 16, sometimes 14, because they're, they're playing in these [00:43:00] different, I'm not gonna name the, the letters of the different things that are going on, but we all know what they are.

And they're, they're, they're basically, Acting as college kids already at 12, 13, 14, you know, the travel, the na nationwide, everything all the time, you know, but also just the intensity is, is at levels that, you know, are, are more than they used to be. So what, what are your thoughts on all that and how can we, um, what can we do to, to keep kids enjoy?

I mean, we can't make people do anything, but what are some of the things we, what are we can do to landscape to make it so that, and from your opinion and from your, from your position as you see all the different, the different places around the country to, to keep 'em in the game and to keep 'em so that they can be fans of the game.

[00:43:48] Skip: Sure. And, and I have two responses on that. The first is, we are the only sport. Team sport that doesn't have what I would, what I term [00:44:00] alternative programming. And by that, you know, if you look at some of the other major team sports in this country, um, you know, look at football, so. The concussions came through when parents started to pull their kids out of football, because of the potential danger.

And so u s a football in the N F L came out with flag football and flag football is pulling kids in, in droves. And the, especially on the girls side, girls are flocking to it. And I know the folks at the N F L and U S A football are trying to position flag football to become an Olympic sport, which again, will just explode the popularity of that discipline.

Basketball, same thing. They were losing kids. They, they couldn't keep them involved. So they started three V three. It's now an Olympic sport. Hockey. Same thing. They've created street hockey three V three, and it's, it's moving in the right direction. Lacrosse, as young as [00:45:00] it is sort of in that main, thoroughfare of, of youth sports in this country, they've already jumped out in front of it and they're starting to bring in a smaller lacrosse sixes.

A smaller game. So we have it at the very local level, but there's nothing like soccer fives or soccer four or soccer threes where you could create alternative programming to just keep kids involved. And I've spent a lot of time talking to our friends over in England with the fa, they've gone through this exact same thing.

They're probably a couple of years ahead of us, but they've said they've come out with three V three and five V five, and they're seeing that more kids are staying involved in the game because you can play co-ed, you can play different years, you can play when you want it, how you want it, where you want it, kind of like what cellular technology is giving us.

but they're also seeing a, a huge influx in adult play coming back to the game because again, instead of going out and saying, all right, I'm gonna play 11 v 11 every weekend, and I'm gonna have to go to two [00:46:00] or three practices a week, and I'm 15, and I just don't really want that time commitment. Well, if I can run down to the school yard, play a quick three v3, that might work.

And so if we're able to somehow, and we're, we're talking to technology companies about how can we create that solution in a box? So, you know, the, the folks at N F H S, the National Federation for High Schools, you know, they've even said, if we can help create that, schools would be a great environment, because you don't need adults, you don't need coaches, you don't need referees.

You're just giving, uh, the kids a canvas to be able to go out and have some fun. You know, it's almost like street soccer. But now let's bring it into that organizational umbrella. And it's a whole different mindset. It's a whole different paradigm than what 11 V 11 will give us. And so we can bring that into the fold.

That's gonna have a huge change on keeping kids involved in the sport. Part two of the [00:47:00]equation is, as you alluded to, we're burning kids out earlier and earlier. The dynamic is that soccer is getting, and I heard some parents at our regional championships a couple weeks ago saying that, you know, a friend of theirs has a 12 and a 13 year old and they're spending 10 grand a year on each kid to be able to play soccer.

And I, I mean, I stopped dead my tracks and I was like, how, how is that even possible? And, and so unfortunately, because soccer, um, is so fractionalized in this country, You know, US soccer years ago said, we'll have a bunch of different lanes and everybody can register players. What that created was a paradigm where you're not really focused on player development, you're focused on player cannibalization, so that the team here wants to take from the team there because they're in a completely different league than this team over here.

And so what you're [00:48:00] seeing is that you have, you know, take, I'll say Atlanta, you've got teams going, you know, four or five hour drives to be able to stay in their lanes when you could have 10 teams within a half hour of each other playing each other. And so the money aspect of it, and it, as I call it, the adult personal agenda and financial agenda is clouding the issue.

And it's not just a soccer issue, this is a youth sport problem that we just, we almost have forgotten why we're doing this. You know, it's not about our profit and loss statement. It's not about, you know, how can we make money, which unfortunately we're seeing more and more, you know, of these financial firms and these venture capital firms coming in and they're buying up everything in on the planet so they can get a great return on investment.

Kids can't be an equation of a return on investment. Kids have to be able to beat kids. And if we're gonna go down [00:49:00] that path, well the end result is what we're gonna see. Um, you know, more and more kids are gonna leave the sport or go to other sports or just leave sport entirely. And I, I think that's just, that's unfortunate.

Not just for sport itself, but for society. Because we all know that if you're active and you have an active lifestyle through your teenage years, you're more likely to be active as an adult. And if you're more likely to be active as an adult, your insurance costs will be lower, your medical bills will be lower, your cognitive skills will be enhanced and increased.

So, I mean, there's so many benefits to sport. We're losing sight of that. And that's why I always say we need to have a correction, but unfortunately that correction will not be comfortable for some people because it may lose some of their revenue. Yeah. You know, that's But

[00:49:54] Phil: that, oh, sorry, go ahead. Oh, that, no, I was just gonna say that that's, uh, you know, it's, [00:50:00] there's so much there obviously we can unpack for, for so long, but I think we've talked with so many people about these issues and we, I don't, I can't recall a time we've talked to someone who's really sitting in a position to say, we can try out some things that can, that can help. Right. And you know, and I, I, I'm sitting here in Sacramento and this weekend is the homeless World Cup, right. Street Soccer USA is, is, is a part of that. And, and to see the, just watching the documentary on the homeless World Cup and seeing how people are literally coming from around the world playing seven seven, and yet, We don't really see it on a, on a larger scale, um, here in the US even though we're, we're ho people don't even know what's going on.

And I know that are street soccer leagues going on, but you don't hear about 'em, you don't, you know, it's not even a thought for kids, um, and parents. And so what are, what are some of those things that, you know, in your mind or things that you're actually piloting or trying that, that might be able to put a dent into [00:51:00] some of this stuff?

And I know it's baby steps and I know it's not something we're gonna turn the ship around tomorrow, but, you know, you gotta do it. You know, as we say, we, I just got back from Honduras. We said Poco. Poco, right? Like, you know, little by little, how can we, what are, what are some of those things we can do little by little?

[00:51:14] Skip: You know, and, and that's the, the underscore is little by little because unfortunately, you know, and this is the world we live in, uh, you know, there's, there's a new acronym league that, that comes together every year, every season someone's gonna come out and say, we're aligned with MLS or NWSL and we've got the pathway for you, and we can get your kids further than anybody else.

And you know, the, the downside to that is parents believe that and they just go over and they move along. And so if we come out and say we wanna make a correction and we wanna try to remove some of the travel or some of the costs, those clubs and those leagues that might [00:52:00] get hit, and we get threatened all the time, if you don't do exactly what we say, we're gonna go to, you know, US Club, or we're gonna go to AYSO or s ay or UAAA, you know, whoever the, the other lanes are, we're gonna go over there because they'll let us do what we want.

And so we have to be able to navigate it where we have to make sure that every step along the way is driving relevancy for the clubs and more importantly for the families. Because if the families don't understand the relevancy of what you're doing, the clubs are just gonna go where they can make the most money.

And, and, and if we put a barrier up there, ultimately we're gonna lose all those players, in which case, you know, then we're, you know, we're trying to, to make productive change for a decreasing inventory. And so it makes it, you know, we have to, we have to kind of do it. It, it's, we have to be very focused in how we make those change so that we don't alienate those that'll [00:53:00] just run somewhere else.

[00:53:01] Paul: I think it's a, a whole ‘nother topic for an probably an entire show. I'd love to maybe do that one day. Um, cuz I think my question was along the same lines of, of Phil's, and it wasn't directed at you necessarily, but you know, it's, it's, we have had these conversations a lot. It's, I think the question comes down to, you know, who leads the charge?

Who leads the change? You know, and I think we have to do it collectively. And I, you named six different organizations who probably have similar missions within youth, youth soccer in, in the United States. And are all there for probably, you know, different reasons. And, and the same idea with the different, I live in a very small town and there's not enough space for the two club teams that are here, but there's two, and it's detrimental to the growth of the sport in our little town. , and, and so, you know, that, that question of who, who leads the charge, who leads the change, I think we have to all do it together. I think that's, you know, those are maybe some of the little baby steps we gotta come, come into [00:54:00] as well, and figure out how do, how do we get our heads around that?

So, uh, I love that you're, you're thinking through those processes as well.

[00:54:07] Skip: And, and to that point also, I mean, again, you know, and, and, and we have discussions with those other organizations, you know, to say, how, how can we work together? We all have end games in mind. We all wanna do things certain ways, but there's gotta be a point where we can do things for the ultimate good of the player.

You know, and, and I have this discussion even with US Soccer, who as the, the National Federation in this country, you know, they also need to look at the youth space and say, you know, and they could, they could say, well, you know, realistically, all kids under the age of 13 should be categorized as players.

I mean, if I had my druthers, that's the way it would be. You can't under 13. If you're under 13, you can't be on an elite team, a travel team, a competitive team, a select team, you're on a team because at that [00:55:00] point you're still growing. You're still mentally, physically, physiologically, psychologically developing.

And for an eight year old to be put on an elite team, by the time they're 15, they could be so far behind in player development that, you know, the parents can be sitting there going, we've been spending thousands of dollars a year and our kids now the slowest has, you know, all of a sudden going in a different direction.

What was the point where, again, if you go back and you and, and a lot of countries around the world will do this, You want the kids to develop on their own rate, multi-sport play. Yes. But eventually, by the time they get to 12, 13, 14, soccer is gonna be, you know, they're gonna be good, they're gonna be passionate about it, and then they're gonna take off.

And we want that continuum to exist, but we're clouding the issue by bringing in all of these acronyms for the level of play for [00:56:00] single digit age kids when they should be able to learn at their own rate. Skip would

[00:56:06] Paul: be safe to say that there's so much focus on finding, uh, you know, America's messy, that we're starting entirely too early and not realizing how guys like Messi actually develop.

You know, it's, it's, it's, a lot of it is that, you know, Hey, my kids are decent soccer players because we just play soccer in our house. We play in the yard. My 14 year old might be on his first select team this year. No one else plays select soccer. You know, from a soccer family, I, I don't, we don't push it.

But are we too focused on like, trying so hard to develop that elite player that we're not really focusing on the way that it actually should happen? Which is kind of what you're saying is, hey, allow these kids to develop on their own, have fun with the game, whatever game it is, the ones who fall into the soccer lane, fall into the soccer lane because they develop in the right way mentally and physically and emotionally to be able to be successful.

If that's the route that they're gonna go, [00:57:00] whatever how, however they want to define success. Do you think we're missing the boat because we're focusing on the wrong thing at the wrong time?

[00:57:07] Skip: To a degree, yes. But again, it's. If you think about it from a society standpoint, I mean, I got a letter in the mail yesterday from a group that says that they can help my kids, even though my kids are two are outta college, one is still in college, and it said, we can get your kid into Stanford or an Ivy League institution and you do it our way.

I mean, that's sort of the, you know, capitalism at its finest that, you know, how do you help parents get their kids where they wanna be? With sport, that danger, you know, is, is certainly a parent that there are a lot of clubs out there. They're gonna say, if you sign with our club, you know, you have two clubs in your town, one club very well may say, we can get a d d one scholarship for your, for your kid if they come and sign with us.

You know, the reality is we have two and a half million kids playing under [00:58:00] US youth, you know, all of the other sanctioning bodies have hundreds of thousands. So collectively there's, you know, just over 3 million registered through US soccer, and then a couple of other millions of kids that are playing unregistered.

There's only so many scholarships available in at the NCAA level. And so the reality is, if we think that there's 2 million elite kids, what we've done is taken the typical player development pipeline, which is a pyramid, and we've taken it and we've inverted it. So it's now the, you know, uh, you've taken the base of the pyramid and you've artificially inflated it to the top of the pyramid as your elite.

And when you turn the pyramid upside down, eventually it's gonna crumble. And that's the danger of youth sports right now. Not just in soccer, but we have too many. Kids that really aren't elite, but are being designated as elite and they're in, they're, [00:59:00] again, artificially inflating all of the parents' designs and, and hopes and dreams for their kids.

And at some point it's gonna, you know, it's just gonna fall apart. And so realistically, it's not something that USYS can do, it's something that the ecosystem has to start to say, you know, enough's enough and let's start to check what we're trying to accomplish. Yeah, I

[00:59:26] Paul: like that. I saw that a lot skip coaching at the, the collegiate level for, for so many years just with all the different leagues that were cropping up and all of a sudden it was diluted after at one point you're like, man, what are all these leagues and why are these teams in this league if these are the elite players?

Because they were being sold what you just said. Through our pathway, you'll be a division one player. And I mean, as a division one soccer coach, there were, it was almost harder to select players at that point because you kinda have that sympathy feeling of, man, these parents have paid, you know, in [01:00:00] excess of 10 grand a year.

And I'm, you know, if I'm asked on a panel, I tell parents, Hey, save your money, invest it, and then you can pay for college. Don't, don't, don't use your kids' co uh, soccer career as an investment mode to pay for college. Uh, I think you, you're going down the wrong path. But anyway, I could go on for a long time about these things, but I agree with what you're saying.

Skip it. It's a bit inverted there. And, and they're being sold, sold a bill of goods, uh, in some

[01:00:23] Phil: ways. Yeah. And also on that note, Paul, it just, it's it, you notice we've done now enough of these episodes that you see common themes crop up amongst the different people we talk with. And I remember, I think it, the one that I remember saying at last was Jay De Me, where he said, you know, we're, we're now catering.

We're basically putting it all in and we're, we're coaching to the 1%. Right? Mm-hmm. And we're, we're creating these leagues for the 1%, and that is something that, you know, we're, we're completely losing the 99%. And that is, will have a massive impact as far as you're talking about, like, fans of the game and kids [01:01:00] who are, cause if you're not in that 1%, then it, it won't be fun.

It won't be something you're ready for. It won't be something that you're gonna be able to keep up with. And that just is, it just is the reality, um, of it all. And, and quite frankly, most of the kids aren't gonna want to do that. Um, it's just not, it's not something that, that they're made for, uh, wired, all the other things.

Right. So, yeah, I think that that's something that I've heard multiple, multiple times. And you said it a different way, but it's really that same idea, right? We're inverting the pyramid, we're coaching to the 1%. So

[01:01:33] Paul: Yeah, I agree, agree with that for sure. And it, we've, we've, we've been going for a while here, skip.

We wanna be, uh, We value your time. So we appreciate you being on with us today, and we, we've always got a couple questions we kind of wrap things up with as we transition to, to the end here. Uh, and again, just appreciate you so much and what you're doing for, for the game, uh, and for, for the kids in, in our communities.

But, before we end here, a couple quick questions, from us. How have you first question, how have you used the [01:02:00] lessons you've learned directly from the game of soccer in your relationships, whether it's marriage, parenting, any of those relationships directly from soccer, uh, into those relationships?

[01:02:12] Skip: That's a good, you know, I go back to the very start. Keep it simple. Uh, you know, I'm, I'm not, um, I, I, I'm not a man of many words. You know, I'm, I'm probably the, again, the introvert in the room. Um, and so whether it's with the kids, my wife, my family, friends, my colleagues, you know, the folks that I work with or, or, you know, around the ecosystem, you don't have to say a lot.

You just need to kind of be true to your mission. And, and from my perspective, you know, and, and yes, I changed the vision was to make fans for life. You know, for me, that's all it is. You know, if, if I do my job well, then when kids are my age, they're still, you know, proud to be [01:03:00] associated with the sport.

You know, I could care less how many of the kids are national champions or come out through ODP or play college or, you know, whatever it is. You know, I want those kids just to be fans. And if we do that and you keep it simple and you keep it direct and you're just honest with everybody, You know, hopefully you'll have more successes than failures and like a goalkeeper, I'll make a lot more saves than picking the ball outta the back of a net.

[01:03:30] Phil: Yeah. You know, it's, it's so, it's so funny to me to, to just see like, just my kids, right? Because four of my ki five kids play, soccer and, you know, and, and the, the fifth played as a freshman in, in high school and, and enjoyed her time. But to watch my oldest play, she's the one who played the national championship.

She was on a team that was incredible, sent several players, just, it was the anomaly. Several players, D one, couple are probably gonna be going on playing pro from that team. It's just crazy odds that were [01:04:00] not the norm, right? But she ended up stopping playing in college and she just never really loved it at that level.

She said, I never really loved the game, and yet I watched her play just for fun with other people, and she absolutely loves it. She's ha just see joy. And I remember I basically now at 21, she is, I watched her play the game with the joy that she had at the age of 5, 6, 7, before she played at the quote unquote elite level at 8 years old.

Right. You know, and, and that was a whole different story. But to watch that, then she ended up going to Nepal to do some ministry and to be able to play there and the connections it can make. And so when, if she hated the game, she wouldn't even wanna play it. Right. But because it never killed that joy.

And that was something that I've been trying to work into them since they're little, like, Hey, this is a game. At the end of the day, this is a game. It's [01:05:00] fun. It's, it's just a, a place you can have joy, hopefully have joy. And if you're not, then don't be playing like that. That don't. Don't ruin it. But that's been something that I've, I've seen firsthand, which has been really cool.

[01:05:13] Skip: And that comes down to the, the basic core, which is relevancy. You know, the sport, how sport aligns with an individual is all about how relevant it is to their entire composition. You know, as a, as a human being, as a person, you know, what, what they wanna get out of life. And, you know, my three kids all played soccer, but at some point they walked away from it.

And I, as hard as it was for me, you know, when they made that decision. And as hard as I think it was for my kids to come to me and say, eh, they'll think I'm gonna play anymore, I had always said, I. What you wanna do is what matters. Soccer means something to [01:06:00] me, and it's part of my d n a. If it's not part of your d n a, do what is, because that's what's ultimately gonna make you happy.

And they still will watch the games with me. They'll, they'll go around and they'll, if they go and kick they, you know, they thoroughly enjoy it. But at that point in time, it wasn't for them. And I think that discussion with so many parents is, what's missing is that you can have the fastest, the biggest, the most skilled, the most technical, you know, the, the tech set, you know, from a technical standpoint.

But if they don't have it in their heart, they're not gonna end up playing in the mls. Yeah. And sometimes we forget to communicate that to parents so that they're supportive of their kids to walk away and maybe play less than more. Yeah,

[01:06:50] Phil: absolutely. All right. Skip. As, as Paul said, you know, we, uh, and I've say this in, in a lot of the episodes, all good things must come to an end.

And this is our last [01:07:00] question. So what is, what have you watched, read, or listened to that has most impacted your thinking on how soccer explains life in leadership?

[01:07:09] Skip: Yeah, I got a call a couple weeks ago from Tom Mulroy, and Tom, he, they call him soccer Tom, and he goes around the country and he does, you know, I think he's got the Guinness World Book of Records for juggling or something.

but he played in the NASL even before I did, back in the mid seventies, I think. And he just wrote a book and he asked me to read it and it was called, 90 Minutes with the King, and it's gonna be coming out later this summer. And he was a kid that school didn't necessarily agree with, you know, he wasn't one that really applied himself academically, but, oh my gosh, did he love the game of soccer and the challenges that he personally took to be able to get where he was and where he wanted to be. And the book is titled because when he played with the Miami Toros, he played the New York Cosmos, the year Pele played [01:08:00] with him and he marked Pele. And the part that just stood out to me was at the end of each game in the n a Nasl, Pele had a, an agreement with the referees.

10 seconds before whistle, they'd point to Pele and he'd run off the field so he wouldn't get mobbed by the crowd. And with that, the game that Tom marked him, Pele went up to him, patted him, and said You played a great game. Him and gave him his jersey. And Tommy just thought, holy Christmas, I'm gonna get killed.

You know, he put it under his shirt and as soon as the whistle, he ran into his locker, but. I think that from a, you know, what soccer can do to change someone's life, the steps that you have to take and the focus that you have to take to be able to get there says a lot about what the game can do for people, but what life can mean for people.

And it just really resonated with me. So that's, that would be one on my list. Yeah. And it's coming out this summer and I believe the title will be, 90 Minutes with the King. [01:09:00]

[01:09:01] Phil: Well, I, you know, I think we've had a couple first, in the last few episodes, and this is the first time I think we've had a book that, uh, hasn't even been released yet being recommended, and I'm very much looking forward to grabbing that.

That sounds, that sounds fantastic. And so, yeah, we had early on in the, in the show we had Clyde Best who played, uh, against Pele as well. And, and, uh, they didn't, he didn't mark 'em, obviously, they were both attacking players, but to be able to hear these stories of, you know, especially now that that Pele has passed on, to be able to hear and keep the, keep it going cuz you know what a, what a great, uh, man.

And what a great ambassador for the sport. So I, I look forward to checking that out when it, when it comes out and we'll, we'll have the links to everything. Um, hopefully we can, we can pre-order it at this point or be able to get information. We'll just have, at least have the name of the book that, uh, the current title at least, and be able to, to check that out as well as the one that Paul mentioned earlier.

We'll have links to US Youth Soccer if you're not familiar with that. But thanks, thanks, skip. [01:10:00] Just appreciate you, appreciate all you're doing. Appreciate, you know, all the thinking that is going into this and that, uh, that you're really putting heart and soul into making soccer better, for everyone and for not just a, a select elite few, that, uh, oftentimes it seems like is, is getting the focus.

So thank you so much again for fighting for that, and, uh,

[01:10:21] Skip: appreciate you. Well, thank you Phil Paul. Appreciate it. Fun conversation. Always enjoy things like that. But again, thank you for all that you guys are doing to support the game.

[01:10:31] Phil: Absolutely. All right, well thanks folks. Thanks again for, uh, being a part of this and thank you for, uh, just really, uh, thinking about how you can, uh, make the game better as well.

And so hopefully some of the things you learned today will help you to do that. As always, you can learn more about Warrior Way Soccer, what Paul and Marci are doing down there in Waco, in Guatemala and other places. Uh, warrior way soccer.com. You can find out about coaching the bigger game and, and the work that I'm doing with [01:11:00] that, uh, at coaching the bigger game.com and anything else you have questions about, please reach out to us. You can reach out to me, Phil@howsoccerexplainsleadership.com. And, uh, love to hear your feedback. Love to hear any questions you have, for me, for our guests, for, for anybody else, and just really just, how we can make the show better.

Any guests you think that would be good to be have on the show, please share those with us. And as always, hope you've taken what you're learning from this, uh, show and you are using it in your life to be a better leader, a better parent, better spouse, a better friend, better coach, better in all that you do, and continually reminding yourself that soccer does explain life and leadership.

Thanks a lot. Have a great couple weeks.