In Episode 22, Phil and Paul briefly talk about highlights from the second half of Season 2, and spend the rest of their time discussing the leadership genius of Ted Lasso, Coach Beard, and Nate the Great. Specifically, our hosts discuss: Highlights...
In Episode 22, Phil and Paul briefly talk about highlights from the second half of Season 2, and spend the rest of their time discussing the leadership genius of Ted Lasso, Coach Beard, and Nate the Great. Specifically, our hosts discuss:
Resources and Links from this Episode
Phil:[00:00:00] Welcome back to How Soccer Explains Leadership. Thanks a lot again for your download. Thanks for being a part of this show. We are at a halftime show again, we, you know, these, these shows are going by so fast, but the good thing about that is that now I got my brother in arms here. Paul Jobson, Baylor Women's Soccer coach, co-host of How Soccer Explains Leadership.
Paul, how you doing man?
Paul:[00:00:26] Doing well, man. It's Just the other day, we were just recording one of these. So I feel like that you're right, man. They're, they're flying, but the content is awesome. The shows have been great and really been enjoying that and looking forward to our conversation today to.
Phil:[00:00:37] Yeah. You know, it's amazing. If you haven't listened to, to the first half of this season, I strongly encourage you to go back and check them out. I mean, last week was Clyde best just as I, as I called the episode interview with a legend, if you haven't heard it. It's just an amazing conversation I had with a great friend and old coach of mine who has incredible experiences playing all over the world.
Renee [00:01:00] Lopez, who's a former college soccer coach, tons of experience there helps with recruiting. And she's also a leadership coach. Brad Miller, who is the co-founder of Soccer Resilience, talked with us about the sports psychology side of things and the mental side. Fantastic. As you said, Paul, I think you, I think you put on Instagram that you think you might owe Brad money after that one.
Because it was so good. I've heard so many people.
Paul:[00:01:19] Just some great content in there that I, as I'm listening to it, I'm like, man, did I, did I subscribe to this? Did I need to pay some money for this? Cause there's some great wisdom in there. And actually looking forward to having just a one-on-one conversation with Brad here in the near future, just a lot of wisdom there from that guy.
I think that can help, help me as a coach and us as a program, maybe. So I'm looking forward to that for sure.
Phil:[00:01:38] Absolutely. So, and, and I tell you what parents I've heard so many different parents call me on that and say, man, this just helps teachers. Just anybody really out there, it will absolutely help you.
And then Rob Burns, who kicked off the season, Rob was in the Youth Academy at Wolverhampton Wanderers or Wolves as most of you know them. And he now runs a ministry over in Wales doing some amazing [00:02:00] work, but he had some really cool concepts. The, head hands, heart concept about really learning, doing, and then teaching is something that we really need to remember.
So we're not going to dive into those like we normally do because as promised today, we are going to jump into one of his fast becoming one of my favorite TV series of all time, Ted Lasso. Paul and I had the, I don't know if it's pleasure. I was for me anyway of researching this again. So I had to you know, I got to watch the entire series again and very, very much glad that I did Paul, just overall Ted Lasso.
What's your take on this show that just kinda came. It didn't come out of nowhere ‘cause it was the commercial, but it really, I think took a lot of people by surprise on the quality of it. What do you think?
Paul:[00:02:49] Well, first of all, I'm not a, I'm not a re-watcher of shows. I'll watch something I'll be entertained and I'll, I'll leave it there.
But this is one that I've gone back and watched again and gotten more out of it the second time I [00:03:00] watched it. And one that I had to be convinced to watch the very beginning, to be honest with you, because I like, you know, the commercials were great. It was funny. How do you replicate that? But man, just some great stuff.
It's funny. It's, it's very deep in times, as far as the content of it. It's got some great emotion to it. But just some fantastic leadership lessons that come through this. One as a soccer coach, I valued as a parent, I valued as just a leader in general. I valued just his approach to people to be quite honest.
We talk on this show about how leaders need to know themselves first and then get to know the folks around them. I think the show, Ted Lasso knows who he is. He knows who he is. He's unapologetic about who he is. But does a great job of getting the best out of others around him. So yeah, it was a fantastic show and I'm really looking forward to just dive in deeper into Ted Lasso of who he is as a person, as a leader and, really just kind of going from there.
So, yeah, I'm looking forward to this and, really looking forward to the feedback from, from our listeners of people, what they think as they've listed, what we're talking about and, and their experience through [00:04:00] this show as well.
Phil:[00:04:01] Definitely. I'm glad you said that because it reminded me to remind you out there as you're listening to this, take down some notes, take down some thoughts that you have that you want to ask us some questions you want to add to the conversation because I'll tell you what there's so much we could be talking about right now.
It's not just about, Paul and I out here talking to each other so you can listen to somewhere. I mean, yeah, that's cool. But what's even better is you engaging this conversation. So if you haven't done this already sign up for Clubhouse because Paul and I are on Clubhouse a couple of times a week.
I mean, there might be weeks where we're not able to make it for one reason or another, but we're Wednesday mornings at 10:00 AM Pacific. Talking about this very topic, how Ted Lasso explains leadership and then Friday mornings 9:30 AM Pacific. We talk about how soccer explains his leadership, really what we're doing there is taking last week's episode, whatever it was.
And we're talking about that. And so it's just something that we're really enjoying. Being able to have conversations with people all around the world about the things that we get to have conversations with different people [00:05:00] who are incredible leaders, incredible soccer people, incredible organizational leaders.
And so if you are interested in that and you're not on clubhouse, just go onto clubhouse and hopefully somebody can get you an invite to that. ‘Cause right now it's invite only, but that's something that we really value. I actually have a few invites. So send me, send me an email if you if you want to do that firstname.lastname@example.org and we would love to be able to do that with you.
The other place you can connect with us. Is the Facebook Group, How Soccer Explains Leadership Facebook group. if you haven't joined that already go do so because the, how soccer explains leadership community can connect there and really dive deeper into these questions.
That's where you can also give us any guests that you think would be good for us. And then we can hop on a call with them and see if it really is a fit. So without more about kind of the logistics of this I want to jump right into this with just the right now, just the general idea of Ted Lasso. So those of you who haven't watched the show, you know, obviously we're going to have [00:06:00] some spoilers here. So if you haven't watched the show, I encourage you to go check out the first couple episodes. At least if you don't have Apple TV, probably get a monthly pass for free Apple, sorry if there's Apple people out there.
I think that you do have a monthly free thing, but go watch the first couple episodes. Cause we're going to be talking about in this show, but we will have spoilers. So that is a spoiler alert because we're just going to talk freely about this amazing show. But, but we have this guy random dude from Wichita State.
He led them to a, national title D two, I believe. And. He gets hired to coach this team over in England. And then there's this idea of, you know, people go, well, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Right. And that really is on some level. But what do you think about the idea that someone coming in who gets people who understands coaching sport understands bringing people together to come into a team and have that 30,000 foot view level without having any preconceived notions about what a team is [00:07:00] supposed to look like?
What do you think about that? As far as the leadership principle.
Paul:[00:07:04] Well, I think what it shows us is it shows us that it's not as much about what he knows about the game itself, right? So he's walking in the guy, doesn't know anything about soccer, you know, we'll call it soccer. So we're not confusing soccer and football.
But he's coming from American football going over and coaching soccer. And, and it's not as much about what he knows about the specific sport. It's about what he knows about leadership. It's about what he knows about taking care of people. And I think what it shows us is that. maybe that's what's most important in our leadership concept, isn't the X's and O's of the individual sport or the individual business that maybe we're stepping into, but it's how we get people, how we motivate people knowing ourselves, knowing others taking care of others so that people can be great at what they do.
And he he's fortunate that he's got, Coach Beard who has some strengths that he doesn't have, and he ends up being surrounded by other people in this organization that are able to step up into areas where he's weak. And you're gonna be surprised through the show [00:08:00] of who some of those people are.
And I think, Nate the Great is a great example. You know, he walks into the kit man, who knows way more about soccer than he does and ends up relying on him for a lot of things down the road. So I think what it shows us is that. It's not about the X's and O's necessarily, I think it's a little farfetched that he knows nothing about the game, but that's Hollywood a little bit, but I think it's it's kind of a cool thing to see.
Hey, as a leader, how do you get people to rally around you and to believe in you? Again, he's stepping into a clubhouse where the guys are laughing at him. This guy knows nothing. Even the community, this guy knows nothing about the sport and finds a way to get them to, believe in him.
Phil:[00:08:36] Yeah. We've talked about this on the show, right? The posture of learning. the humble posture to come in and really seek to learn, to listen, to understand. And he came in again with no preconceived notions. Beard was reading a book, he's reading Inverting the Pyramid, those soccer fans out there would realize that that's about on the plane, fantastic books.
That's our recommendation for the day. But he was reading that on the plane ride over, right? So he's, he's learning the game. He's the guy who's going to be that [00:09:00] tactician, that, that, technical trainer of the team, right. Of this coaching team. But he still doesn't really know it, but he's going to learn it, but Ted's going, you know what?
He was reading some other book and these are all intentional things in the show. I have no doubt. Ted's not reading, but he's like, Oh, you're reading another soccer book, good job Beard. Because he knows from his strength, like you said, this is something that I've talked with. A lot of people about in our coaching clinics, in our certifications and whatever, we're learning the game.
We're not learning people. And so there is something to be said for someone coming in to be able to say, here's the people stuff you need to know As we talked about personality assessments, we talked about the mental side of the game. We've talked about all these things, those transcend sport, And even this idea, this concept, I mean, I'm a living example of someone coming into a space. I came into the orphan care space back in 2008 with zero experience in orphan care. I was on the board of an organization for a couple of years, but if you've ever been on a board of a [00:10:00] nonprofit, you know, that doesn't mean that you're going to become an expert in it.
But I came in and I just said, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to, I don't know how to lead a nonprofit. I don't know how to lead an international organization. We were doing stuff in Honduras, other parts of the world, And I said, I really don't know. I was kind of a Ted lasso of orphan care for lack of a better example.
But I'm not going to tell you that whole story, except to say a few years later, I had 15 coauthors on a book that is now one of the seminal books talking about how to bring families to the orphanage setting. And that's not because I'm this amazing person who's just brilliant in all these ways.
No, it's, it's there's I didn't know. And I had this learning posture and I had no idea what was going on, except that I knew I needed other people to help, to compliment my strengths that I have. And I knew I had, which is a connector. I'm actually very similarly wired to Ted lasso, interestingly.
But also interestingly, a few years later, one of my mentors who started a business school said to me, Phil, it's a good thing. [00:11:00] You didn't know what you were doing when you came into this leadership. Cause if you would have, you would have tried to do everything the way it was always done and it wouldn't work.
Okay. Because you didn't know, you tried things, you disrupted this idea and that disruption actually caused the book. It caused the Think Orphan Podcast, which came out of it because I said, no, it's, we're not just going to do it the same way. We've always done it. That's basically what Ted lasso did. He came into this team that wasn't really successful and he said, we're going to disrupt and see what happens. Right.
Paul:[00:11:31] Yeah. And I don't know if that was intentional or not intentional, but, basically he made a, he made a move based on his needs, to take on a new challenge and, face some uncertainty because maybe he needed a shake up in his own life, or didn't need to shake up in his own life.
And took on a challenge to go in and say, Hey, they're willing to take a chance on me. Then I'm going to go in there and be who I am. And he's a winner. I mean, he'll you talk to me? He doesn't like to, he doesn't like to lose, but He's going to win the right way. He's going to win people over it the right way.
And I think that him going in and shaking [00:12:00] things up a bit was good for that organization and for the people that are involved in it. And I think that we see that in a lot of different areas, but I think, I think something also important it's like out of that. Phil I think it's great that you mentioned your personal experience as well, is it?
I think that sometimes people get caught up in maybe not taking chances because of that fear of the unknown. When in reality, that could be one of their greatest strengths stepping into something is not knowing. but again, you've got to know who you are. You knew who you were what you're about.
You knew what your strengths were when you stepped out of your comfort zone into, into the unknown as Ted Lasso, did And he brought along, his number one companion his trusted mate, so to speak in, Coach Beard. And I think he probably doesn't make that move if he doesn't convince coach beard to go, we don't see that dynamic.
We don't see the question that it just kind of like, we just assume that if Ted's going beard is going, that's kind of what you get the assumption up through the show. But I think he knew if he had coach beard that they could really do anything. There's some, funny references that they make throughout the show of just their bond and how they relate to each other.
So, but I, I, there was something to that [00:13:00] disruption and I think if you fast forward to the end of the season there's reference to that as well. From Oh, what's there from Rebecca that the owner of the club, that it was maybe the best thing for them. But definitely the best thing, you know, if people are jumping on our clubhouse with Phil, from England, he runs a non-league club and he talks a little bit about some of that.
And some of the conversations, we have just a valuable conversation that he gets to talk about. But but yeah, his disruption of that club from day one is evident. And watching him navigate the waters of how to get people on board with his, we talked about mission, vision and value is pretty incredible.
Phil:[00:13:32] Yeah. It it's it's so it's so cool to, to just think about this idea, obviously, as you said, it's a little far-fetched to know nothing about the sport, but really this idea of. disruption in a good way. Everything has its shadow, right? The fact that he knew nothing about the sport, gave him a perspective that somebody that knows everything about the sport would never have.
And somebody knows something about the sport. The fact that he'd never coached the sport, gave him a perspective, nothing was off limits, right. He came [00:14:00] completely clean slate to say, we can do this, whatever we need to do in any given moment we can do. And interestingly, it is a good segue for me.
Something you said where one of the quotes in the first episode that I just loved, this thing is we haven't watched Ted Lasso. So, you know, there's these Ted lasso isms that are just classic and I totally get it. He throws a lot of stuff on the wall and he even catches it.
He's like, yeah, that one didn't work or whatever. Right. But he just says these things and I mean, like so many references, isn't this show, you could watch it five times and catch new things every time. If you're a Fletch fan, even the Underhill's are referenced in at one point of the show, which, you know, I'll let you find that egg later on in the seasons.
But he said, taking on a challenge is a little like riding a horse. If you're comfortable while you're doing it, you're probably doing it wrong now. If you've written a horse, you understand that. And so, but that idea of change, right? That idea of taking on a challenge, I've said many times that great things happen on just the other side of comfortable.
Just the other side of that fence, if you're comfortable, [00:15:00] chances are, you're not going to experience all that God has for you, all the fullness of what life has for you in your leadership, in your parenting, in your soccer experiences, whatever that may be. I mean, think about running, you know, there's some people who enjoy running, but I'm not one of them, but if I'm going to get to a place where I can play a full soccer match, I need to get out and run and push myself well past my comfortable.
Just that alone. I mean, we could go on and on about that, but what do you think about that quote, what do you think about as you've seen it in your personal life, but also as a coach of these women at Baylor, what have you seen from that with these girls and how do you implement that into your coaching?
Paul:[00:15:39] Yeah, well, a couple of things first off, that moment of being uncomfortable, we don't usually choose that moment. Sometimes it chooses us. And that, that can be difficult. Rarely are we the ones choosing that difficult moment? Like you could say Ted lasso chose that moment to go across the pond, to coach a sport he'd never coached before and he put, he.
Chose to put himself in [00:16:00] that difficult situation. Sometimes we choose it. Sometimes it chooses us. I think, as a college coach, you know, one of the things I, I think is important to teach our young people is how to get through difficulty, Whether it's the first time they've ever sat the bench cause right, you've got the best of the best.
Now they're at the next level and now they're competing to be the best at this level. And some people are going to sit the bench. They'd never have you got maybe kids dealing with the first time they've ever been through an injury, first time being away from home for an extended amount of time or they're away from home.
And something happens at home that they've got to deal with from afar. So, part of what we, we're called to do here at least is to help these young people navigate on those tough moments. Not, not help them avoid them, but help them get through them. Because like you said, I mean, if you can push through some of those hard moments, you're going to be better on the other side of it.
And you've learned something and now The next one you go through, maybe different, but not as hard, maybe because you've been through something difficult or you now have the opportunity to help somebody else to lead somebody or influenced somebody. Who's going to go through something similar down the road and using [00:17:00] your experiences to help them through that.
I mean, even see that, with Ted and Rebecca, they've got a common thing. They're both going through divorce and that was, unexpected when he went in there, but that's something they have a commonality of. Is there, you know, you'll see them navigate that, at one point during the show, but like going through difficulties by yourself or never really, I don't think how things are intended you're to go through them with other people.
But again, back to sometimes You choose the, the difficulty and sometimes it chooses you and how you navigate that will a lot be determined based on who you are and what your core values are. And as a program, if you've got difficulties within a program or a culture or a business, you want to make sure you're going through those things with the right people.
And those challenging times can really tell you if you have the right people in place or not. You'll see that through the dynamics of team, right? They go through some difficulties in trying to navigate whether they've got the right people in the right places, even within their organization. as he navigates, team chemistry a bit with his two high powered players.
[00:18:00] Phil:[00:17:59] Yeah. And I wanna dig a little deeper into that with your players, as far as how you push them past comfortable, how you push them past that, in a way that, again, personality wise, I mean, you look at those two players. I, I want to do an entire episode. One of these days, we'll do it on just DISC and Ted lasso because the personality calmer, I mean, I'm watching it and just seeing different things and just seeing in their health and their unhealth and seeing when Ted wasn't talking, he would in fire five-hour bus ride, and beard knew he was something was wrong.
Cause he didn't talk for five hours and that's just. Not going to happen with the high I personality. And so those are, those are things that are real and are actually super helpful when you, when you get it. But that's not what we're talking about right now, but I do want to hear that with you.
And again, we've talked about this where sometimes it's, you, sometimes it's a different coach, but how are you inspiring your players and pushing them in a way that actually is effective knowing that each person will respond differently to these challenges and to the difficulties and to the uncomfortable a lot [00:19:00] of these kids go into Baylor.
I'm presuming are coming from pretty, they're coming from homes that are. Oftentimes, they're not going to have a lot of tons of struggles and tons of uncomfortable, you know, I mean, they'll have uncomfortable moments, but not at that level that sometimes you see when you go away and you don't have your parents, you don't have the people that are there to support you sometimes.
And it gets tough and it is uncomfortable. I knew, I felt that when I went to college, right. So how are you able to do that through that uncomfortable part? Whether it's you, whether it's the captains, whether it's other people in your team.
Paul:[00:19:31] I think the first thing is you've got to find connection with each player, there's gotta be connection, whether it's one of the coaching staff members or somebody on our extended staff, or like you mentioned captains and in developing leaders so that when they're veterans they're able to pour into the younger, players in a way where they can showcase their experiences, the hard moments they've been through, but that connection is critical and getting to know your players as early as possible, we mandate.
one-on-one meetings with our coaching staff so that we can get to know our players better and see [00:20:00] who's going to connect. You know, I'm not going to connect to every player on my roster. And neither are my assistants, but I think as we kind of divide up the team and see who connects to who, then we know, who can be the greatest resource for each, for each individual so that we can be there for them when those hard times come.
We even have some folks that we consider, they're not staff, but they're, extensions of our soccer network here in town. I've got a former NCAA division, one field hockey national champion from university of North Carolina. Who's, who's in Waco now. And she's an amazing young lady who is able to pour in and mentor some of our young players.
So it's not even a soccer person necessarily, but how did they, how do they navigate life? You know, how do they get through those tough moments of, of college and being away from home or. Going through an injury or a breakup, because they're leaving the, support of their home, the comfortable, the comfortable setting of having a hard day at school and going home and having the love and support of their mom and mom and dad, hopefully and leaving that.
And then, where do they then find that next level of comfort? So I think it's about creating an [00:21:00] environment where there's connection and helping them also understand who they are and what they're, what they're really about. And I think that's when kids get to college, they're starting to really figure that out too, that they get away from mom and dad and realize that things that maybe they felt were important aren't or vice versa.
And college is a time to learn more about yourself. And I think that's what we're here for. You know, if you get outside of just the X's and O's, which is, I think what we're talking about with Ted lasso, we're going away from the X's and O's, and he's not an X and O guy. Now you have to have that to be a successful team and think he gets that.
But that connection is a primary time to help folks get through what they need to, and you see that with we, even through his team, the different players that he's got to help get through difficult moments at the professional level,
Phil:[00:21:42] Absolutely. And I think that's something that's so important as you said, that connection.
So you're going to have the challenges. I mean, we've got CS, we're unintentionally going th the C's of this, the show, because what I'm about to go to as a C as well, but you have the challenges, as you said, that little, like riding a horse, right. In the comfortable, it's not [00:22:00] comfortable. Right. So that discomfort, how can we help them with community, right.
And that, and have this community around them that we have created, which then all of that is part of culture. Right. So we've talked a lot about culture on the show and Ted Lasso has no shortage of culture conversation, So it starts with the first episode, the little things that make up a culture.
He first thing, they go to the stadium, pick in the grass. This little dude comes running across the field, yelling at them, saying, get off the grass, get off the grass. They don't know who it is. And he realizes it's the coaches or the new, the new coach, new manager. He's like, Oh, I'm so sorry. So sorry. So sorry.
But then he says, what's your name? And Nathan says, nobody's ever asked me my name. Nobody cares about who I am. He goes, and then he's kind of standing there and they, they still doesn't say his name and says like we're waiting. Right. And so he says, [00:23:00] Nathan, So that's the little thing, right? That he actually cares.
He shows that you are part of this. And even if everyone else did it differently, I'm not going to try to be everyone else. If that's what nobody had asked her name. Okay. Well maybe I'm not supposed to ask your name. No, again, it goes to, he knows who he is. He knows the culture he wants in this club.
So it starts with that. And then later he remembered his name. and Nathan's like, wow, you remembered my name. And again, it's those little things that you care. And people watch that. People see that beyond that though, Nate would do anything for him. he would be his, his right-hand man in which he is.
We learned later on in the show, he, he becomes one of those. But then also with Rebecca, who's this owner. And if you haven't seen it, you'll know if you haven't seen it, you've probably lost you by now. But if you have seen it you know that Rebecca is this hardened. She hired Ted because she wanted to fail.
She wanted him to fail. She wanted the team to crumble because it was getting back at her ex-husband but he says, he brings her biscuits and go biscuits with the [00:24:00] boss biscuits with the boss. Right. when he first brings it to her, she's like, what is this? I don't have time for biscuits at the boss.
And he says, we can't be good partners if we don't get to know each other. So this is that culture that he said to her. You got to see the way I see it. Everyone here is part of the team part of AFC Richmond. Team's got a bond, So this is totally different. A one 80 from the previous coach who was coming in and he was this misogynist guy who was, there's some other parts that I'm not going to talk about on this, because it might put us into a not clean category, but it's, it's a totally one 80, but when he comes in and says, this is all day one, basically of him being there and he's like, we need, or maybe day two, because he brought biscuits, but he needed to establish that this was going to be done differently.
And we are going to be a family here. We're going to be a team that everyone top to bottom from the kit man to the boss, needs to be on the same page. What'd you think about that? I kind of threw it all out there [00:25:00] for you, but what does that look like? What did that speak to you as a coach, as someone who's really big on culture?
What'd you think.
Paul:[00:25:06] What I love about it is that you don't see him going through the thought process of, okay, I need to do a, B, C, and D. It just, it is who he is. And he just walks in and said, Hey, this is kind of how it's going to be. But at the same time, if you haven't seen the show, you might be thinking, okay, this guy's just like, it's a hard line.
Or like, he's, it's his way or the highway. And it's total opposite. It is the most humble dude you've ever, ever met, but he is who he is to the point of even the first day that he's there, they throw him into a press conference. if he's the hardliners my way or the highway, he's gonna walk, Hey, I'm not ready.
We're not doing a press conference. We're not ready for this, but he's, he's humble. He's like, Hey, I gotta do a press conference. Okay. I'll do it. You know, and he's been set up, but but he's a very humble guy. And I think that the piece that. Speaks to me through what you're saying is that he's not having to think about what it is that he wants to do.
It's not premeditated. It just is who he is. He's like, okay, [00:26:00] we're going to all get to know each other. Cause that's how we're going to do, how I do things. And that's how we're going to be the best team. I'd be curious to go back into the associate history and know how much he actually knew about American football.
Did it, it didn't matter because it was more about being able to get his teams bought in to a vision to be successful. And I think that's what overlaps from his American football to his soccer coaching is that he just is who he is. He knows who he is as a leader. he's going to humbly approach that and he's going to do it unapologetically.
So, Hey, this is, this is how we're going to do. And this is how we're going to be successful. I love that, and I think that as a leader, if you can. Cast your vision. I'll say it this way. We've talked about the people in your organization need to see you living out your own mission. And I think Ted lasso does a great job of that.
He doesn't just say, Hey, this is how we're going to do it. You actually just see him doing it. And to me, that's what speaks volumes to me is that he's just a a leader who leads by example. You know, you hear the [00:27:00] words that come out of his mouth, but you see the actions of just even his involvement in the community when he's playing soccer with a girl in the street, he's having a pint at the pub and being called names but taking it and being like, Hey, okay mate, come watch us this weekend.
You know, that type of thing. So, I think that's what impresses me about just his, I'll say character.
Phil:[00:27:18] Yeah. You see that with great organizations, right? They do take on the personality of their leader. It's going to be from the top. And sometimes that can be authoritarian. My way or the highway, this is the way it is.
You do what I say. We're going to do it this way. And you have, a working relationship with the boss, with the manager, with the chair, with the board, whatever it may be, and then others. And then, you know, this is how I operate, which is I'm going to be who I am. And I'm going to bring everyone in around me to be able to do that.
Or I've told them before, you know, your choices really are, you can let me go because you don't believe that this is the way you want the organization to go. Or you [00:28:00] can understand that this is who I am. This is the way it's going to be. Not because I am a authoritarian, but just the opposite. Like, I want you to be part of this.
And if you don't like that, then I'm the wrong guy for the job. And I, I saw that with Ted Lasso where he's like, this is what I do. This is how I do it. I'm not going to learn a different way. Not because I'm arrogant, but just the opposite. Like I'm humble enough to know that I may mountain may not be the right guy for the job because I know who I am and I'm going to be true to myself.
Right. And there was even that humility that comes up. You said humility, that's humble leadership, right? If you look at the level five leader, Jim Collins, and good to great where he talks about that professional will wear, you know, lasso wants to succeed. He just has a different definition of success, He absolutely has that professional. Will. We want to get it done? We want to win, but we want to do it the right way. But he also has that humility. So it's that humility with the professional will is that level five leader. The first episode had that great scene where they're getting into the car at the end [00:29:00] and beards smashed in the back with, because he's in like this little Mini Cooper and beard smashed with a suitcase of face against it.
And then Ted's in the front. And there's some other funny parts about it. But the point of it is Rebecca says, Hey, Ted, I can get you a car. And he says, no, that's all right. I got Nate here. You can take me. just this humility of, I'm not this big shot. I'm just a guy who's doing his job.
What do you
Paul:[00:29:23] think? Yeah, I mean, there's just, there's so much to that. And I think there's a great lesson there for, I was going to say young leaders, but I think any leader is that be who you are and let the culture of your organization reflect who you are and not the other way around.
If you step into a toxic environment don't let that culture dictate who you are. I mean, you, this, this story could go a whole nother way, where you build up a character of Ted lasso and he steps into a toxic environment. All of a sudden tele to lasso becomes just like the former coach who, like you said, a misogynist and just some other things about him that were not great culture.
So Ted lasso is redefining the culture of an [00:30:00] organization, not allowing an organization to redefine who he is. And I think as leaders, when we're changing jobs or. doing other things or taking over something new, I think that's important. And I think it can be overlooked at times. And if, if not paid attention to, I think it can happen very easily to, to any leader.
We talk about when we're recruiting student athletes and early on in our career, we couldn't bring on we couldn't take many chances on our culture because we had to grow our culture first. And then as we've been here longer, we can take some chances because the culture will dictate how players are gonna act, not players acting out and dictating the culture.
And I think it's the same as a leader. When you step into something new, make sure that you know enough about yourself or have people around you that can hold you accountable to being who you are and not allow the culture that you're stepping into to dictate who you're going to be. Cause there's a reason there's a change.
There's a reason you've been brought on if it's a new organization or whatnot. And, and I think you gotta be true to who you are and be willing to step out of it if not.
Phil:[00:30:54] Absolutely. And I think with that humility too, when you talk about that change, when you talk about the, when a new [00:31:00] person's coming in, there's a reason for it.
But to also not just throw the baby out with the bath water, To not just say everything's gone, it's a new, new sheriff in town, Like there are some things to keep, there are some things that are good. So come in and do that assessment to come in and be able to realize like, again, that humble posture will help you to learn that there are some things with these.
Like he didn't just come in and just fire the whole team and bring in a new team. That's one example, but he's got these viruses that are in the locker room and rather than just cutting them out and saying, I got my own people, I'm going to bring in. He said, no, I'm going to work with this because there's amazing.
Good here. And I can, if I can work with it and we can get this work in, even as we talked about earlier in this show, we talked about when he pointed at Roy and said, he's the one, he knows that this old crotchety dude, who's just angry at the world. If he can get him, that's the, that's the linchpin, right?
So he sees that there's this amazing beauty in there, and it is a both, and it's, he's going to come in with his. This is who [00:32:00] I am, and this is how I'm going to be, but he's going to also see that there's incredible goodness, in the midst of this organization that already exists and how can you use both?
And then some things will need to go at some point. And we've talked about this with viruses. We don't need to rehash all that. If you haven't listened to that, go listen to the initial conversation I did with Paul. Remember that first interview I did with you. We talked a lot about that with how can you best deal with these people?
We've talked about that with Graham Roxburgh. We talked about that with Amanda Cromwell. We talked about that with a couple of other people, right? So that's something that we can talk about all day long, but the point is that there is this huge, again, it's with that humility to understand that I don't know everything, but also the security and the understanding that this is who I am.
And then when you understand those couple things and you understand what your values are and you know, your core values and you will stick to your core values, then the decisions become easy. Because you put everything through those filters, And then you can say, okay, here's how we address this situation.
I see. [00:33:00] Easy, you know what I mean? They're maybe simple. Maybe they're not always easy, but they're simple, right? There's the, there's the filter. There's the process that you can say, here's who we are. This doesn't fit who we are. Therefore we need to either bring it in line with who we are or it needs to go.
And that process could take a while depending on the situation. But do you agree with that?
Paul:[00:33:20] Yeah, it may not be easy, but it's at least clearly defined because you you've put in clear expectations and you've set your filters. I love the filter example, but even, as his extensions of the program into the community, which is so important for a club in Europe and AFC Richmond, especially the small town club where, you got to get the media on board, and he's stepping into, as Rebecca says, after the first media interview, like we can have more people, here in our media, Room asking questions that we've had in years, just because, well, there's a lot of questions to ask, but, Ted does a great job of even welcoming in the media.
And I forget the, the main guy's name that he ends up doing a walk around. Yeah. Crimm yeah. You know, it, it's just great how he, it is [00:34:00] just Ted is who he is. He's the same with the media as he is with his players, as he is with Nate the Great as he is with Coach Beard. He just is who he is because he is clearly defined.
What's going to be important to him. And he set those filters in place. And I think it allows him to be a good leader while he will have struggles. He can at least sit down at night and know, okay. I was true to myself and my, vision for what we're trying to do here. You've got a lot of respect for that for a leader.
Phil:[00:34:25] Yeah. So there's a couple more things I want to talk about when we, again, all these things, as you know, folks, I can talk about anything for a long time, but also these are principles that if we don't get them, this is why the show is so brilliant because we're just, we've literally just talked about like one and a half episodes here.
And there's all these things that have come out of it. And we can talk about each of these things for a much, much longer. And we are talking about them on the show, the good news for you folks. there's 20 other episodes. You can go back to actually 21 other episodes and go back to listen to, and these principles are all throughout.
And now once we talked about them, you'll hear them everywhere. In the future conversations. I have no doubt future conversations. [00:35:00] We'll be touching on all these things as well. So, the last couple of things I want to talk about on this there are a couple more quotes and the two that are that right now.
I want to just talk about our Sam. So this great kid from Nigeria, Sam, I forget his last name, but he's just a happy guy who gets abused by, Jamie Tartt. For whatever reason, Jamie Tartt just picks guys. He wants to, ridicule but Sam keeps a positive attitude, but he's also struggling because he misses home.
He's struggling because he's just trying to find his game because he's not comfortable in England coming from Nigeria. So what does Ted do? first of all, Tartt burns him in a, in a practice and he's ridiculing him. He's yelling at him and lasso brings Sam over and he says, Sam, you gotta be like a goldfish.
And he kind of looks at him and goes, what, what are you talking about? He says, “Goldfish has a ten second memory. Be a goldfish Sam.” There's that little thing that he speaks to him. And [00:36:00] then, well, let's just talk about that for a second. What does that look like? I mean, you appreciate that.
Presumably as a coach with players that tend to dwell on things, certain personalities dwell on things longer than others. And Sam is one of those that would dwell on it for a really long time. But what do you think about that with your players and how do you communicate that to different players who, you know, struggle with those?
This goes back to the mental side of the game that we talked with Brad Miller, but that resetting that idea of retraining the brain on the, things that some of these kids. And I know my daughter is one of them. They're just we'll just ruminate on something for the entire game.
Sometimes I had a player who had an own goal once and she was lost the rest of the game because she couldn't get out of her head. So how do you teach that? And what do you think of that?
Paul:[00:36:42] Yeah, I mean, we talk here, same idea, but a little bit differently. And that When you make a mistake, you've either got to flush it or you've got to put it to the side, and flushing.
It means that it wasn't really a big deal. You don't really need to come back and evaluate it. You just made a mistake. You just flush it and forget about it. The other one you put to the side and maybe you come back and look at it later. How could that mistake make you better? [00:37:00] But you can't evaluate it in the moment because we know with our, especially with our game, if you take a moment off, you're lost, you know, you don't have time to reflect on things that have just happened because you've gotta like chess.
You gotta be thinking ahead. So you don't have time to look backwards. So we say either gonna flush it, or you just got to put it to the side and put it into the side of me, we'll come back and look at it later, either halftime or the end of the match or during the weekend film or whatever, but we don't have time to evaluate it in the moment.
And with some of our players, it's pretty freeing to know that, to say, Hey, I don't, I don't have to evaluate that right now. No, I mean, you're like you just said, if you're thinking about it, you're, you're not gonna be able to make quality decisions moving forward. I think it might've been in Brad's interview was he talked about his kid that scored the own goal and just her perspective coming out of that, that he was so impressed with.
And I was too, that she could move on beyond that when you've just scored an important goal against your team. but understanding those things happen I think if you can create a culture where mistakes are okay in that, we say, Hey, you're going to make mistakes and they're okay.
Just don't keep making the same ones over and over and over again. Right. But I think that [00:38:00] memory of a goldfish. is a great thing to look at or just like, Hey, you can't think about those things in the moment. You've gotta be able to move ahead, but put it aside, come back to it later or flush it, forget about it.
But you've got to move on to the next thing. And I think for a kid like Sam, I think that was important for him. But I think the other piece has got to happen too, is culturally, the rest of the team's gotta be able to do that too, but you see that with Jamie, he's not going to let him go because he wants to be the best and to be able to be the best he's going to put everybody else down.
And that's how he feels. He gets to be the best is that he just makes sure nobody else can gain on him. So he sees Sam as weak. So he cuts him down and to get your culture where it needs to be. Ted's got to get that right. And you see him deal with that through the different episodes of how he tries to get Jamie on board to make everyone else better.
Phil:[00:38:46] Yeah. And then with Sam on top of him, just helping him to know how to deal with the negative. He also knows that he's a guy who's going to respond to people caring about him, To people show that they love him. And he's going to [00:39:00] have a touchy, feely moment wouldn't have worked with Jamie Tartt or Roy most likely would have, but it wouldn't have shown it.
Right. It would probably wouldn't have gotten an immediate dividends with them. It probably would have been a longer slower burn there. But with Sam, he knew he's homesick, he's struggling. He misses home. He misses his family. He misses people. And he's not performing at the level that he knows he can get out of this kid.
So he decides he hears it’s his birthday, like, all right, we're throwing him a birthday party. They lose a big game. They end up having a birthday party at the end of it. Lasso got criticized for it as some of you are going,. Rightfully so. Cause that's stupid. But it wasn't because he knew this is something that will speak to Sam, but it will also speak to other guys in the locker room.
Like this coach cares, this was early on in his tenure, So he sent her out a little box for a collect money for it, whatever. but he ends up throwing this party a birthday party. And that's something that this goes to, whatever you're leader of little notes, handwritten notes, [00:40:00] little, birthday messages, a birthday party.
If you can do it, if you're small enough organization, do that for everybody But again, I don't even think it is necessary to do it for everyone. Andy Stanley has a great quote where he says do for one, what you wish you could do for all. Yeah. And I think that is such a beautiful thing for our thing.
Don't say, Oh, we can't do it for everybody. Therefore, we can't do it. No, we know, first of all, this guy needs it right now and we wish we could do it for everybody, but this will speak volumes about everything else too. What do you think about that as a coach? Because you have a lot of girls, so I imagine you feel that same tug and that same issue come up quite a bit.
Paul:[00:40:35] Yeah. One of my favorite Andy Stanley quotes, by the way, I'm a, I'm a big Andy Stanley fan went to his church for a while when we lived in Atlanta. And that hit home because I think you want to, as a leader, you want to treat everybody equally, right? But sometimes you, don't do things, you know, you should, because I can't do it for everybody, but you just gotta just do it for one.
And when you do that, you actually find that you end up doing it for more people than you normally intended anyway. So [00:41:00] it's a great thing to kind of go with. They just want one person at a time to be able to do that. another piece for lasso and organizations in general, the decisions that Lasso is making our longterm.
It's not about the short term, it's about the longterm and when you're trying to change a culture and he's doing long-term things in a short-term game. He's not guaranteed past the season, but he's invested as if he's going to be there for a very long time. Not knowing if he is or not, because what you can get caught up in is playing the short-term game.
And then you're in the rat race. When do you ever start getting ahead? So he's investing in the long run. If he's going to be there, say, Hey, if I'm going to be here, long-term this is how it's going to be done. If not then. Okay. I've given it my all. And I'm out of here. The other piece I love about the Sam story.
And we talked about it with Rebecca a minute ago, how he could relate to Rebecca. He's been able to relate to Sam he's also, they did the exact number 4,000, whatever 23 miles from home. It's relatable. He misses his kid. He misses his wife, [00:42:00] he misses his home. So he's what I love about Ted is he's actually able to sit and relate with each person in a different way.
He finds something relatable. I think even with, Jamie Tartt, he finds something relatable. And, and even with Roy Kent, he finds something relatable. And I think that makes, you know, it's easier to be a leader. He may not be able to relate exactly. And it may not be his exact experience, but he's had a previous experience that helps them relate.
So I think being relatable to your players or your people in your organization it doesn't mean you have exact experiences, but you got to find a way to relate so that you can sit in their shoes and say, okay, this might help them. He knew Sam was more of a touchy, feely guy. he wasn't gonna throw a birthday party for Roy Kent.
Right. You know, that just wasn't gonna work. So, being able to relate and playing the long game. It's something that I think he's, especially in first couple of episodes, you just seem really just planting some seeds for the long game.
Phil:[00:42:52] Yeah. And unfortunately, that's not something we see a lot in the Premier League right now, or really in a lot of world football.
You see these coaches and these managers getting sacked [00:43:00] after, I mean, Lampard, wasn't given the opportunity to play the long game. See, Chris Wilder recently stepping down from Sheffield United. Now he, you know, he's given more time, but you look at a few years ago or different team, different club, Ole may have been sacked a long time from United a long time ago, because there were, there were stretches, That he went through, but he is playing the long game. I believe having one-on-one meetings with players, doing different things that I've seen, that I respect his taken it. He's doing it differently than I've seen in the past.
trying to take more of a Ferguson approach. Alex Ferguson would have been sack. We've talked about that on this show and today's game for sure. He went three years without really having success as Manchester United defines it. But to look at, Jurgen, Klopp, I think is a guy who plays the long game as well.
And he did, he had a few years at Liverpool where he wasn't having as much success as they did. And now he's going through another stretch that happens. But you know what, you know, it's going to turn around because he's a guy who does play that long game. And he's a guy who will get those players if they're, if given the opportunity.
So those are things that we as organizational leaders need to understand if we're really going to have that [00:44:00] longterm success, do we have a short-term or long-term mentality? If you want the short term, you might get a couple of trophies. I think Mourinho is kind of in that camp.
He goes for the short-term. He wants to win now. So give me my players. Now I'm just going to get it with the locker rooms shambles. Well, we're going to win games now and it might have that long-term thing. So I think that's something from an organizational also. I think quite frankly, as we talk about on the show from parenting, from, you know, our marriage right.
I mean, we'll go there. I want to hear your thoughts.
Paul:[00:44:28] I mean, I, I was going to say the same thing. We, we really, I think on this show, we do a great job of, it's not just about corporately or within the team. It's about family too. And I think when you're, when you're raising children, it's about the long game, Yeah. You want them to get their behavior right, right away. But if done a certain way, you may get the result you want today, but tomorrow they're gonna do the same thing again. But at the end of the day, you're, you're trying to prepare your children for when they leave your home. Right. When they go to college to be with, you know, At whatever college they go to or whatever they do after they leave your home.
It's a long-term [00:45:00] game and for marriages too, It's a long-term thing. You're in it for the long run in the long haul. And I think that those daily deposits of being true to yourself and what you're trying to attain is even more important at home than it is maybe on the job.
And I just think of with our kids, we talk about when they go through tough things, we've talked about this on the show too. You let them fall off the bike. You don't let them ride off the cliff. So you have these difficult times where your kid has to go through some of these things that we know, we can't protect them from everything.
It goes back to the it's a little like riding a horse. It's if it's comfortable, you're probably doing it wrong. Right. If, if life is just comfortable all the time, you're probably doing it wrong. You're not taking those risks. If you talk about skiing, if you're, if you're not falling, you're not trying hard enough.
You're not really learning, I don't care who you are, you're not pushing yourself if you're not falling. And I think with the kids, we talk about that with my kids. At least I don't, I don't know about you, but we talk about those cheap lessons, this is something that you learned a lesson it's hard lesson, but it's really a cheap lesson in the, in the long-term because it might've cost you a little bit of money or it might've been a skin knee, or [00:46:00] it might've even been a broken bone. But at the end of the day, that will be healed. And you learned a great lesson that you're, hopefully won't repeat.
Is it a negative thing? Or you could have seen that it was a positive thing that you did, that you can learn that and learn from it. But again, if you see it as a long game, that's short, my daughter hurt her ankle the other day. And that I'm not saying there's a lesson there, but, but it reminded me because they have these injuries.
And sometimes during the injury, you learn a lesson that you could never learn. Otherwise, sometimes you sit on the bench and you see the game in a different way that you never would have seen. And you're able to see how you can be a better player and contribute to the team better when you're hurt.
These are all things that if we see it from a standpoint of the long game and of the, we can always be learning, we can always be getting better. We can always be helping our team. Then we see things and we see these pitfalls and we see these hurdles and we see these seemingly you know, these injuries and other things that are seemingly awful.
And we can see them from a different perspective because we do have that long game in mind. And so that's something that I think is absolutely critical to be thinking [00:47:00] about as we are coaching, as we are. In our marriages, as we are with our kids, as we are running organizations out there, whatever it may be teaching, these are different things that you can really incorporate into who you are and what you do.
And I think it would be just, I mean, I think I, I know our world would be at a better place if we all did that, but it's not always easy though, Because the short term tangible we're in a microwave culture, right? The short term is easy to see. I mean, I look at this with the orphan care work I do, The short term quick fix tangible result that sells well, that looks good on a screen. That looks good when you're, you're doing your year end result. But sometimes the developmental work is absolutely what's needed. And it's something that isn't easy to see. And sometimes it's the prevention that's the best, but you can't prove a negative.
So a lot of people are like, well, it's hard to market, whatever. So those are things that are, the development work is usually the unsexy stuff that's going to just, just continues kind of like a good center back. Right. They're just going to be solid. But you often don't [00:48:00] even see the center back, right?
Like in a, in a game or a holding midfield. The best of the best, oftentimes what they're doing, isn't even seen because they're not actually making a tackle, they're making a guy make a pass that they shouldn't have that they didn't want to make. And that's the best thing that could have happened.
And it was better than it was as good as a save from a keeper, but you don't ever see it. I think that's a lot of life too. So anyway, what do you think of all that?
Paul:[00:48:22] Yeah. I mean, I think you touched on something just even with the experiences and I think we've gone back and forth on this a little bit and touched around it.
But I think that, when, as a player, we talked about kids that were starters our whole life, get to college and maybe sitting the bench for the first time or they have an injury. What a great experience for. those young people to, get a different perspective on the game. And we say, or one of the quotes I like recently is that you may not be able to, well, you definitely can't go back and change a circumstance. You are where you are, but what you have control of is your response to that circumstance. So it's not necessarily maybe my fault that I'm sitting the bench, maybe it is, but maybe it's not my fault that I'm sitting at the bench at [00:49:00] this point, but what, what am I going to do in this circumstance?
I absolutely can control that. How am I going to respond? Am I going to be a good teammate? Am I watching? Am I learning? Am I developing? So what is your response to the circumstance that you're in? And I think that's an important lesson for our young people. And I think that if I could talk to Ted, I think he would agree with that.
You know, how do you respond to your circumstances? Cause I see him doing that, minute over minute as he's being called names, how does he respond to that circumstance? You know, he's a little boy is what does that mean? Well, how does he respond to that? he's in the pub.
He's how does he respond to that circumstance? he's playing darts against the owner, the former owner, how does he respond to that circumstance? He's never complaining about the circumstance that he has been put in, but he's definitely controlling his response to that circumstance. And as we said earlier, filtering it through the lens ends or the filters that he's put in place to be the type of leader that he wants to be.
Phil:[00:49:51] That's so good. And we're getting ready to wrap here, but the last thing I want to say is something that beard said, coach beard is one of those [00:50:00] guys. Doesn't talk a lot when he does. You want to listen. We all know those people in our lives where they just kind of sit there and listen, and then they say something and you're like, Ooh, wow.
That was really profound. So, they were talking and I can't remember if it was beard, he said this or Ted Lasso, but one of them said, remember what I said at our first day at Wichita State. And then Beard said, relax, they're just kids. And yeah, they also talked about, yeah, these are professionals, they're adults that are whatever.
But at the end of the day, I think what this is saying is don't take ourselves too seriously. Don't put too much pressure on ourselves. Relax. We can only do so much, Relax. We don't want to put too much pressure on these kids. We don't want to put too much pressure on our people because we probably won't get the best out of them.
But also at the end of the day, let's have some perspective, Let's have some perspective about this with your team. You want to win, but at the end of the day, you want to develop human beings. And the perspective of is [00:51:00] this game really that important in the big scheme of things. I mean, yeah, you can't lose all your games and expect to keep your job.
but end of the day, what are the things that we're going to remember? We're going to remember. Who we are, who we were developed into, be the relationships we have, the different things I talked to. So many people I've been putting out these little things on Facebook talking about, what do you remember about youth sports? What do you remember? And people are like, I remember lunches at restaurants, between games. I remember, this coach who brought whatever orange slices, I mean, it's just like you see that. And then some people are like, of course the championships you won, whatever.
But some people say that at the losses that they had, but most people are remembering relationships. Most people are remembering the coaches they had, most people are remembering these different things about it. So thoughts on that as we kind of bring this episode to a close,
Paul:[00:51:46] I think it's a great way to close it.
Just perspective. and Ted goes through this. If he's going to do things the right way he's going to do it a certain way because the end game wasn't about winning games. He's trying to win when the players, and he's trying to win the locker room. And he's trying to make [00:52:00] good people out of, out of the people that are going to leave his space.
And I think that's an important thing that we can get caught up in the winning and the losing and the day-to-day craziness. But I think if you can get your mind around that 30,000 foot view at times, and, and get, get above everything and look back down and put it back through your filters of what you're trying to do, whether it's developed young people or develop great leaders or whatever your culture or whatever God's called you to do getting that perspective.
And sometimes, renewing your mind daily is so important to make sure that you're able to maintain your perspective, especially during a time where things are crazy with COVID and so many different circumstances, as we're talking about are being thrown at you, how are you going to respond to those circumstances and renewing your mind daily can help that and having that perspective is very, very important.
I love that quote too, because I'm right in the middle of that, right? Hey, they're kids, they're kids. And what is it we're trying to do here is develop young people. So, some great stuff there.
Phil:[00:52:53] Again, folks, we could go on and on, but we are going to wrap up this episode today with [00:53:00] that perspective.
We all, it's something that we need to remember. Don't take ourselves too seriously. Enjoy what, where we are, what we are able to do, that we get to do these things. I hope that you do just exchange. I have to do something with, I get to do something changes. Perspective. Perspective is very powerful thing.
So with that, I do again, want to encourage you. As you finish listening to this episode, we are going to have more of these. We will likely over the next few times we meet we'll go through a couple episodes each time and weave in the great lessons we're learning from this show. I was just even thinking, as we're talking about what Renee Lopez talked with us about the Kaizen and energy vampires and these cool concepts that were implicated through this conversation that we just had.
And if you're not seeing that already, this show is something that it actually is the last 20 episodes have been a lot different than I thought when I started this whole thing. I mean, heck we even have a new co-host at this point. And for better or worse, I'm not sure [00:54:00] I love Ryan, but I think that, for what it's turned into, I think it's absolutely the better, because we are able to have these conversations that do implicate so many different areas of life and to have the full-time coach’s perspective to have a part-time coach.
Who's also leading stuff, parenting we're both parents with different families in different parts of the country. And also to be able to have these Clubhouse conversations, it's something that I'm loving where it's going in, these how it's, we're seeing that it is woven together. As we talk with psychologists, as we talk with leaders of organizations, as we talk with coaches, as we talk with people in ministry, as we talk with people who are just in all different walks of life from all over the world, I absolutely love it.
So what we can't do without you out there listening. So we'd love for you guys to be able to engage this conversation with us. Like I said, either a Facebook group, you can do it on clubhouse. If you're part of that, and you can also email us at email@example.com. You can find all that on the [00:55:00] show notes, but without more from Paul, take everything that you're learning from this show and use it really use it to help you understand how soccer does explain life and leadership. Thanks a lot. Have a great week.
In Episode 62, we are capping off 2021 and ringing in 2022 with 20 great leadership lessons (plus a couple bonus nuggets) from our interviews over the past year. There is so much more wisdom in the full interviews, which …