In Episode 98 and other episodes this summer, we are taking a break from our normal programming to share with you some unreleased episodes from the Coaching Character Podcast, which Phil recorded with Coach Roz, who played football for the Oakland...
In Episode 98 and other episodes this summer, we are taking a break from our normal programming to share with you some unreleased episodes from the Coaching Character Podcast, which Phil recorded with Coach Roz, who played football for the Oakland Raiders and San Diego State, and now runs The Playmakers, which works with at-risk and developmentally different children. This is great content that we wanted to ensure got the airtime it deserves. In this episode, Coach Roz and Phil talk about their interview with Phil Dubois, lessons we can all learn from Remember the Titans, and measuring success in coaching.
Resources and Links from this Episode
Phil: Welcome back to how soccer explains leadership. Thanks again for being a part of the conversation that we get to have on this show. I'm Phil dark, your host, and my co-host Paul Jobson. And I absolutely love. Bringing all this great content to you. These great interviews that we get to have with people from the world of soccer, people who have learned lessons from soccer and sometimes other sports and how they're using those lessons in their lives, in their leadership, in their families, in every relationship that they
So we're getting ready to release the first episode of our next season next week. But this week, we are continuing our series that we've been doing this summer. It's really just a break from the normal to give Paul and I some time with our families and to do some of the stuff that we do in our respective ministries.
So this week, we have our last lost episode of the coaching character podcast. This podcast was a podcast that I did with a friend of mine, [00:01:00] but we never released most of the episodes. And so we thought, what better place to release those episodes? But. On this show because it's a very similar mission on that podcast. We, we really are wanting to help coaches understand how to incorporate character integrity, all these really important life principles into our coaching. So I hope that you've been able to learn what we wanted you to learn this summer
with these episodes. And I hope that this episode is no exception. Coach Roz and I, we are talking in this episode about one of my favorite sports movies of all time. Remember the Titans. It might be my favorite sports movie. And some of the lessons that we learned from that show and some of the things that we think you can take from that. We also talked a little bit about the interview we did with Phil DuBois last week, we released that interview and we talk about really how we can measure success in ways that really matter. In our coaching. So with that, I hope that you really enjoy this episode. I hope that you learn from it. And you [00:02:00] know, I just really hope that you are learning from this show, what we, what we really want you to be. And that's really how to use these lessons in your life, in every area of your life. One thing I want to also mention before we get to this lost episode of coaching character is I want to remind you because I really haven't done this this summer.
I want to remind you that we are continually looking for great guests. If you have one, or if you think you are one and you have something to share with our audience, Please reach out to me, firstname.lastname@example.org. You can give me any of those people. And I, and really, if you could connect me with them, that would be the best so we can get on a call with them. See if they're a fit.
And we can then be able to have, continuing great content for you. So with that folks here it is the last, lost episode of the coaching character podcast.
[00:02:48] Coach Roz: Welcome To coaching character. I am Coach Roz the Aztec I'm. I've added that to my that's title now. That's good. That's good. I'm Coach Roz, the Aztec. Okay. And that's particularly important because of our [00:03:00] previous guest. Yes. And I've got my partner in crime, Phil Darke, Phil. Good to see
[00:03:05] Phil: you, man. So I'd after either be the Aggie or the Commodor in that regard and neither really.
Jumps out as like Aztec is definitely meaner than the Commodor or the Aggie. And having
[00:03:17] Coach Roz: had lunch in the, at the Vanderbilt quad does not make you
[00:03:21] Phil: a Commodor, you know, that's true. I did just go to law school there. I did go to the games, so, and we did win the. All school intermural championship at
[00:03:30] Coach Roz: Vanderbilt.
So Katie, our producer, who's sitting here. Yes. Katie, did you notice how he worked in that law school thing again? Yes. Like that, that, oh, that, oh, that's constantly a playing card with him. Yes. Like he should be proud
[00:03:42] Phil: of that. Well, you know, I just, just throw it out there every so often because you know, if people think like, you know, I'm maybe.
Educated or something, cuz I didn't play
[00:03:50] Coach Roz: football. I don't make a big deal out of my Aztec physical education degree. I just that's. That's true. You know, it
[00:03:56] Phil: just goes without, so, so you mentioned something that we haven't mentioned yet, which [00:04:00] is Katie over here is our, is our producer. She likes. To stay behind the camera.
But maybe one day we'll get her. We'll get her in front of it. We'll get her in front of a microphone as well. I don't know. We'll see, we'll see about that. If we're lucky enough, we'll be able to do that one of these days, but thank you, Katie. None of this would be possible. None of this would be happening.
You wouldn't be listening to this if it weren't for Katie. So,
[00:04:19] Coach Roz: and we pay Katie an unbelievable
[00:04:21] Phil: amount of money. Don't we just amazing, amazing stuff. Yeah, I think you got her Starbucks today. If I'm that's right. Yeah. Mistake. And that was about, that's about what we do. So, yeah. So anyway, she double fisted it, I think is what I was seeing.
[00:04:33] Coach Roz: that's how, Hey, she was, she was actually excited because she was listening to you and I you and me, you and I. Meet you, both of us, you and me. Yeah. He was listening to both of us. Thank you for
[00:04:43] Phil: Davis or Vanderbilt. Would've taught that would would've handled that. Yeah,
[00:04:46] Coach Roz: but that's okay. But she was listening to our, our our pre pre-production or pre-meeting conversation.
She's going, this is good. What you guys are talking about. So what were we talking
[00:04:56] Phil: about? Well, that's, you know, So the last episode we [00:05:00] just did, as you said, Phil Dubois, Deb, Phil de boys. Okay. I don't know if it was the French OI. Yeah.
[00:05:04] Coach Roz: Well, when, when, when, when we were, when we were recording, yes, lady, he was, yeah.
Then it was
[00:05:10] Phil: Dubois and you hung out with him. Yes. And you were at RA. Yeah. So, but we were talking about during that interview, the phenomenal movie, remember the Titans. Yep. Right. And so I just wanted to go a little bit deeper into, remember the Titans there. You know, as I said in that interview, as we're gonna talk about here, it's, it's one of the top three, for sure.
For me, maybe the top one sports movie of all time. And again, not because of the sport of it, but because of could have been any sport. Yeah. It could have been any sport. Right. I mean, it's like miracle is one of those other top ones, right. For me. And that's. They're both true stories, which is part of why they're my favorites is because of that.
Yeah. And so, but the, the things that in that movie that really stood out to me in the particular, in the context of what Phil was talking about during his interview was [00:06:00] the idea of really. Coaching well beyond the game. Well, beyond the wins, you know, taking them for two weeks to a, to a camp and saying, look, the biggest issue on this team is not talent.
There was a lot of talent on that team. The biggest issue on this team is we're not a team we don't have. And that goes to life that if, if biggest issue in our world of is that we're divided, right? So he, what do you do? He said, if you're a black player, you find a white player and you learn all about.
Yep. And we're not gonna leave here until, you know, every player of your opposite
[00:06:32] Coach Roz: race. Absolutely. And, and just to set the table, because we assume this is a sports show everybody's seen, remember the Titans, but
[00:06:40] Phil: we're, if you haven't, you need to just stop. Yeah. Yeah. Stop right now. Yeah. Go watch. Remember
[00:06:44] Coach Roz: the Titans.
Yeah. But we're obviously, we're talking about a football team coming together where race, all of the things today. That are on today's table were dealt with in that 1970s movie?
[00:06:57] Phil: Well the movie was not 1970s. Well, no, but
[00:06:59] Coach Roz: [00:07:00] no, it was based in, it was based in 1970s when busing was critical. Yep. To conflicting coaches that were forced to work together of opposite of opposite race, kids of opposite race, forced to work together.
And it's all put in this caldron of.
[00:07:18] Phil: Football camp. Yeah. Maybe say different race. Sorry for opposite race. That's not proper term different race would be the, the proper term. Yeah. But it was Herman or, or Boone coach boon, coach Boone, Boone and coach yo Yost Boone was the black coach. Yost was the white coach and yeah, they were forced not only forced to come together, but Yost was a guy who was up for hall of fame, right.
In Virginia for the Virginia. High school football hall of fame and Boone comes in out of the blue and the district said, Boone, you are the head coach. Right. And they're like, what the heck? So point being, you know, the, one of the things though, though, as we talked about, so you have that camp that they went to and I don't wanna, we're not, you know, Spoiler alert here.
[00:08:00] If you haven't watched the movie, go watch the movie, cuz we're gonna talk about a lot of things here that you're not gonna wanna know if you haven't seen it, but I'm just gonna do that general spoiler alert. So don't blame me if you, if this spoils it for you, but the one thing was there that quarterback there that starting quarterback for the.
The, the black team, so to speak was PD. Right? And, and there was no quarter other quarterback that they had until a little bit later in the, in the show. Right. But so little bit later, this white kid comes in. Military guy comes in sunshine and he's got the long, you know, he's from California. So they called him sunshine.
He comes in and he takes over the starting starting role with PD because PD got hurt. Anyway, he ends up paying, playing defense. And there's something happens where PD, you know, was sad and, and whatever. Actually, it was sunshine coming in. He got hurt. PD comes in and the white coach comes up to him and says, Hey, you come over here on defense, you know, and we're gonna put you in a cornerback.
So he puts him in a cornerback. After that game, [00:09:00] Boone comes up to Yost and says, what were you. You coddling, this player does not help him in life. So
[00:09:06] Coach Roz: let me, let me freeze frame you. Yeah. African American coach is, is confronting. Yes. A white, white coach saying, why are you coddling my black player, this African American player.
That's right. That's important. Absolutely. That's important.
[00:09:22] Phil: It's huge, right? Because he says what you're te what you're not teaching him, what he needs to know in life. He's never going to be coddled like that. No,
[00:09:30] Coach Roz: he, and, and goes so far as to say you're crippling him. Yes. You're crippling him. You're crippling him.
That's right. So, I mean, just freeze frame. I, I literally got goosebumps when with you eScribing this, that is a life lesson bigger than the game. That's right, right there. Life lesson bigger than the game.
[00:09:50] Phil: That's right. Continue. Well. And it's on both sides too. Think about that. The life lesson was coach coach to coach mm-hmm, coached a player.
And then also [00:10:00] understanding like, what is this gonna do? And then also the, the beauty of it is these things make the team better too. this isn't something that like, it's just, oh, in life, someday down the road, you're gonna be a better person for it. No, right now you're gonna be a better person for it down the road.
You're gonna be a better for person for it and our team's gonna be better for it. Right. And, and so, and then later in the movie, another instance came up where PD had another issue and because he was kind of, that was his Mo mm-hmm when he had an issue, he pouted and he went off and the, it was his winning formula, right?
Yeah. His pity party. Yeah. For me. And. Both coaches at that instance, didn't coddle him. Right. And those were again, life lessons that he was learning. So, you know, going, so that was one that really stuck out to me. And I think that, that goes again for every, obviously that was a race issue. But really for anything and they, but it wasn't just, that's how you handle every single.
Either. Nope. Right. It was PD has this issue with him that that's [00:11:00] his Mo we need to study him, know him and help him in the way that he needs to be helped. So whether if it was the, the white kids, you might not treat them in the same way. In 19 69, 19 70, 71, whatever it was, Virginia. Right. You treat them differently in that regard, maybe knock them down a little bit and say, that's not the way the live is this entitlement mentality, which we probably have a lot more today.
So, you know, those, these are all things that it's studying the player, knowing what he or she needs pour into that, in that, in the way that they need it to be. But that takes a lot of time, takes a lot of energy and you have. You know, be very, very, very intentional in everything that you're doing. And are
[00:11:45] Coach Roz: you a coach again, staying right in that scene and in that moment?
Yeah. Are you willing to sacrifice and have possibly the best player on the bench for a period of time for a life lesson? [00:12:00] Right. Tough.
[00:12:02] Phil: Tough decision. Absolutely tough decision. And you know, that's where talking about what we were talking about in that in the episode with, with Phil dub boys, mm-hmm what is the success measure?
Yep. Right. Is the success measure that we're gonna win and we gotta have this best guy, the best thing, or, or is a success measure, whether they are successful down the road. Right. Because PD in that moment, if you're looking at just the team. The, the coach, you know, Yos the white coach thought I can use this guy.
As cornerback because my cornerback's getting burned. Every play, cuz he doesn't have the speed. And I know Pete's faster than forget as Ryan Goslin character. I can't remember his name in the movie. Yeah. But you know, and that goes to another issue. We can talk about it in a minute.
[00:12:48] Coach Roz: Katie, just Katie, just perked up when you said
[00:12:50] Phil: Ryan Goss, Ryan Gosling.
Yes. As did my, my entire female contingent when we were watching it, my, my 15 year old daughter who had zero desire to watch the movie, all of a sudden saw some of [00:13:00] these guys and like, oh, maybe I'll watch this movie. , but I didn't mind that the ulterior motives sometimes work in your favor. So, but you know, I think that that was something that they he said that could have helped my team win.
So let's pull him here and it was very short term focused. Mm-hmm right. He has a long again. And that's what Boone came in. He goes, you basically, what he said is you have to have this kid's long term in mind. We're not gonna have a shortterm gain for a long term loss here. We're gonna make sure that this kid is we're gonna give him exactly what he needs for life.
And that may mean we lose this game. Right. Right. And, and even for that Ryan Gosling character, sometimes it's, you're gonna get burned. You know,
[00:13:44] Coach Roz: I, I, as you were speaking here, a couple of things. Dawned on me. One is you and I have done several of these podcasts and I have never seen an excitement with you and an animation that you than talking about football.
Well talk exactly than [00:14:00] talking about my sport rather than your sport, because for, yeah.
[00:14:04] Phil: I also watch kicking and screaming, which is my sport and that's a fantastic movie and way different reasons. So ,
[00:14:09] Coach Roz: But, but here is the second point. If you're a coach sitting and listening to us going well, okay. I'm a, I'm a youth coach in Folsom, California.
I don't get the luxury of taking my team to a battleground in, in Virginia for that lesson. Right. But what struck me as you were saying it is, but you do have the ability to play them a two hour movie. Called, remember the Titans and then start into a discussion with those kids and coaches about what did you observe here?
What what's happening with with inclusiveness what's happening with divisiveness. What's happening with coaches that don't oh yeah. I
[00:14:56] Phil: mean that absolutely. Yeah. Coaching point. Well, and those are, [00:15:00] those are the things that we want to talk about on this show too, right? Like. Not just those coaching points, not just watching this movie, not just learning what you can learn from the movie, but simply the act of a team going together and watching a movie together and talking about it is critical for them to bond and for them to grow closer as a group.
And they go well beyond again, beyond sport, right? Right. And that's kind of the point here is what can we do as coaches to go beyond sport for life for long term, for these kids to help them understand what this sport is, teaching them about what they're eventually going to be doing. Right. You know, and, and those are things that we miss so often in, in our lives, because we just are looking to win because our success measure is the wrong success.
Right. As they say, what what's that old saying? Right. It's it's, you know, make sure your ladder is on the right. You don't wanna climb the ladder and realize you're on the wrong building. And I [00:16:00]think that happens to so many people in sports and in different things they're doing in life because, you know, heck I, I mentioned it and, you know, whatever, obviously I'm not making millions of dollars.
I went to law school, I run a nonprofit now, you know, and I, I realized, you know, I, I never had it on the wrong building necessarily, but a lot of people in the law go, I wanna make lots of money. So I'm gonna go be a lawyer. And really the success measure in life should be in, you know, again, you know, from a, from a biblical perspective, it's content.
Right. It's it's, you know, Philippians four 13, which we see at all kinds of football games. It, it says I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Well, that's really outta context that, that ver that chapter is talking about. I can be content in all circumstances in abundance and in want, and that's what you can do through Christ.
Right? So, and you know, this isn't about that, but the point is. What is that success measure? Is it the abundance, which is most people's success measure or is it [00:17:00] contentment? Because if you have abundance and you're not content, then that's a complete loss in football, bringing it back to the game. If you're 10 and oh 12 and oh 15 and oh, But you're not content.
You're not a healthy team. You guys hate each other. At the end of the year. You don't enjoy the sport because your coaches are railing into you every second of the day. You don't understand the game. You don't understand any lessons. You're not a, you're a, you're a total jerk. And everybody who hangs out with that team says, they're a bunch of, you know, what that we can't say on this show, or also be explicit, but that is failure.
[00:17:34] Coach Roz: How, how many people Phil, have we interviewed? And we ask, we ask similar, similar questions each time, how many people have we interviewed that have said that have played at a high level? Yeah. That have said, gosh, my most memorable football season or my most memorable season was we went one in eight. I think it was every game.
[00:17:52] Phil: Every, every episode,
[00:17:53] Coach Roz: almost every and mean that's not by design. Yeah. Now, and, and we,
[00:17:57] Phil: and we did not prep any of them for that. [00:18:00] Nope. Yeah. And so I laughed the last episode and, and here's where,
[00:18:03] Coach Roz: here's where the, the point I wanna make is. We are, we are athletes. We're old athletes, but we're still competitors.
Yeah. We still compete. Yep. So this is not about everybody gets a ribbon. No, no. At all. No. Don't to the contrary. Yeah. Don't that, that when we talk about, and back to, to you bringing in some really, really appropriate scripture, you can have contentment in one in eight. If you're, if, if your ladder's on the right building.
Yeah. That's right. Did I, did I invent that? Did I invent ladder on the right? I
[00:18:41] Phil: think that's yours. Yeah. I wanna coin that. Put that out there. Yeah, that was, that was profound. Yeah. You could put that on one of those like cool. Means.
[00:18:47] Coach Roz: Yeah. So, so I mean, you, you, you, you landed us on something really cool.
You can be content. It, this is not about 10 and oh. Not even close to about being 10 and oh, [00:19:00]it's about. Having your, your, your vision. In the right direction and knowing what you want to accomplish and taking your team and taking your kids and taking the parents where on that journey as
[00:19:13] Phil: well. Absolutely.
That, and I, I mean, we're here in Folsom, California where we Folsom high school has won I think three state championships in the last 10 years. And. The thing about that. Amazing. How cool is that? You win a state championship? Amazing. I remember those games. I remember I watched those games and those teams were incredible and some of those players are playing the NFL now.
And, but it's not like they went to their NFL combine and they said, Hey, you know what? I won state in high school. And they said, oh, well, now you can be on our now we wanna draft you. Yeah. Like you winning that, doesn't get you anywhere in. Just cuz you have that on your resume. Right? But you being a person of character, you being as a person of integrity, you being a person who people want to hire that will get you [00:20:00] somewhere.
Right. And even those I, I, we had, I played down at mission VA high school. I think we talked about in the past one of the quarterbacks there before I graduated Troy co, he went to university of Pacific. He broke NCAA records, but he, you know, for whatever reason at the time he never played in the. Didn't translate it, it, yeah.
For whatever reason. And he had the size, he had everything mm-hmm but you know, I think what it was is his head privilege. Wasn't on straight at the time, for whatever reason, you know, I don't know this. I, I haven't talked to him about it, but that's my guess, because he's not alone in that. There's a lot of those guys who make it, and then they just have their have theirs administrator or they get into drugs or they get into something else or they don't have the character.
And coaches don't wanna take a chance on 'em. How many times have we seen that? Where an amazing player is getting arrested or has a domestic abuse or has something else because they were never taught those life lessons. They were coddled. They were entitled all these things that we talked about and remember the Titans, right?
Those are all things that I look at and go, these are all lessons we [00:21:00] can learn from, and we can teach others about life and about how we can, you know, and, and I do wanna emphasize again, because the last thing I want you to hear out there, folks is that we're saying that you need to get everyone needs to get a participation trophy.
And you know, if you don't win, you still win and no there is winning and losing. Yep. But the point and you will learn a lot in winning and in losing. And we heck if I go out there and I'm coaching my team, I want to win. I will tell, you know, I like, we always do team goals at the beginning of the season and it always irritates me.
Nothing else when they, they just say, oh, we just wanna have fun. I'm like, no, We wanna win and we will play to win, but that's not the success metric, if that makes sense. And it can be a both end and it needs to be a both end because, and I also get mad at them if they just say, oh, we, we just wanna make CI, we just wanna make the [00:22:00] playoffs.
I'm like, what kind of goal is that? That's like saying I want to be mediocre. No, we're gonna strive for, we wanna win CIF. We wanna win the region. We wanna win state, you know? And so, and, and that's, that's the goal that will push you to that. But here's the, again, I think we've said this dirty little secret before, and I'll say it again.
The dirty little secret that I have for my teams is the way you will get there. Is by having character. The way we get there is by loving each other, the way you will get there is by lead being leaders and servant leadership on this team. Those are the things that you will get you there. And if you get there either by other means and other roads, that's like making it to the millionaire club by being unethical.
Right. Like, sure. There are ways to get there, but you can cheat. You can steal. I remember there was a team in our league. I'm not gonna name any names. When I was a kid, when I was in high school and they won CF championships, they won playoffs, playoff championships, but they were cut, blocking all the time and they were spying on practices and they were doing these other [00:23:00] things that they got there.
Okay. But what, what are you teaching? What are you learning from that? Like at the end of the day you win and you know, in your heart of hearts, it's an asterisk on that. And you know, in our heart of hearts, that's not gonna get you to that next level. So yeah. What do you think of
[00:23:12] Coach Roz: that? I, it, it you're exactly right.
And as you're talking about we would like to win because let's face it. It is more fun in general to win than it is lose. Yes. So let's be clear. Not general. Yeah. Every time. Yeah.
[00:23:29] Phil: I've never had a ton fun losing, right. Unless even with my kids, I wanna win.
[00:23:33] Coach Roz: But, but back to your CIF, you got kids that wanna set the goals of CIF.
That's great. Then we're gonna have to have more character more love yes. Than yes. Than if we, if our goals are 500 that's right. So, so you wanna set those high goals? That's wonderful. Because the formula to get there increases also that's right. And the formula includes sacrifice community service, right.
[00:24:00] Serving others. Empathy, those things. It not being about me. That's right. They they've just raised the price of poker. So I, I totally agree with, with what you're saying as I'm, I'm, I'm moving back to the movie theme a minute and I'm, and I'm combining things. Yes. Phil's Phil's interview. Yes. Where Phil was saying.
Learning how to learn. He's doing work and research and papers on learning how to learn. Now, go back to remember the Titans for a minute. Remember the big guy who said, yep. I'm not going to college coach. I'm a self-aware guy. And coach says, do you, do you remember this coach says, brings him up and whispers in his ear, bring me your grades every week.
Bring me your grades every week that came from the coach. Yep. From a kid that did not think he was college bound. That's right. And then later in the movie, the kid says, coach, here's my grade point average. I'm going to college. Yep. [00:25:00] That's. Learning that's coach's influence that's right.
[00:25:06] Phil: Yeah. I mean, and what he also said, if you remember when he said, bring me your grades, do you remember what he also whispered into his ear?
I'll tell you right now. He said, if you don't go to college, it won't be because you're not able, right. Yep. It won't be because of your grades. It won't be because you're not smart enough. Yeah. Yeah. And that again, is understanding that player. To know what he needs to hear in that moment to be able to get him to where he's gonna go.
Cause if all he said was just work harder in class, right. That's not gonna cut it. What he, what did he say though? He said I'm with you in this . Bring me your grades. Yep. I will help you. I will help you get up to what you need to be able to do. And that that's was implicit in, bring me your grades was I'm in this with
[00:25:49] Coach Roz: you and I, and, and now we're carrying this out and I'm speculating, but take that same kid who dad may or may not be in the [00:26:00] picture.
Mm-hmm at that point in his life. My speculation is even if dad were there. The, the, the voice of the coach on that subject at that given time was probably a much louder voice and a much more impactful voice yes. Than the voice of a
[00:26:18] Phil: parent. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And I do wanna go back and say one more thing about the, the goals that I'm setting for my teams.
Yep. When I say that I get upset when they, when they. Don't have that CIF playoff championship as their goal. It's because I know what they're capable of. Right. Cause I wanna make that distinction because if you're talking and, and it's also varsity high school sports. Sure. Right. That is a choice that they're out there to come.
And I know what they're capable of because I've seen them play. I know what they're able to do. But take Phil, you know, where he says, just give me the worst players or just gimme the players. Nobody else [00:27:00] wants. That's a different, the Phil darks. That's a different exactly. That's a different goal. Right?
Right. You know what I'm saying? Like those kids, if they said, Hey, we wanna win three games. That's a stretch for them, right. I'm just saying when I say those goals, when I say winning is important, it's obviously in the context of knowing what you're capable of and your goals should be higher than what you think would be an easy thing.
Right? Cause whether they say the best things happen on just the other side of comfortable, mm-hmm , you know, when you're maybe not just the other side way outside the cover, but on that side of the fence, It's really uncomfortable. I think basically just either side of uncomfortable, because those are the things that are gonna push you to be better.
Right. What, you know, we, I think we talked about this on the show before too, did SL party where he says, you know, if you shoot for a perfection, you just might hit excellence. Right? Like, but if you're shooting for mediocrity, you're gonna hit it almost every time. Yep. And you're never gonna push yourself.
So that's what I'm getting at with those things. And that's what we saw. And remember the Titans too, [00:28:00] is, is coach Boone was like, we're gonna push. To where you never, ever thought you could go. And that is, and, and in life too. And what did you see when they came back from that camp? You know, they were like that back to reality and the one dude's girlfriend, you know, wouldn't even talk to the, the black guy.
Yep. Because that was she's like, I can't even, why would you even, what what's going on, are you now, you know, one of them. And, and it was like, okay, now we're going back into this, but we're preparing you for what should be. Right. We're preparing you and you have that, like you said, for that kid, and I I'm forgetting his name, but yeah, the big dude, you know, whe whether he was fatherless or not, you, you know, there are those fatherless kids who are struggling and their coach is their dad in their life or with unhealthy fathers who, yeah.
The other coach Golin character, his dad up in the stands. Right. Mad when he gets. You know, he's that helicopter parent that you see oftentimes too. And in a lot of times in those in, especially in high school, [00:29:00] those are the kids that are rebelling because their parents have been helicoptering over them all their life.
And so when they get a coach who comes into their life to speak truths into their life, it very well may be the same thing their parents are saying to them that they're not listening to
[00:29:13] Coach Roz: well. And, and. To pile onto your point here. You and I are both dads and we're both dads of athletes. Yep. And I would like to think that that on most days we, we are a functioning family.
I know. And thank goodness that my daughter does not have a microphone right now. There are times there were times in her growing up. I'm she's deaf ears to me. She does not hear what dad is saying. That's right. But if coach AB says this, whatever it is, well now it's gospel and that's right. But, but you know, as a dad, we're the dumbest people that God has put on face
[00:29:56] Phil: mirror.
Well, I mean, in all fairness, I tone tune you out [00:30:00] sometimes too. So, I mean, let's be honest. Was his name really? Coach AB. Did he have like a six.
[00:30:06] Coach Roz: Coach, no coach AB yeah. Coach AB he's a, he is a,
[00:30:10] Phil: how were his AB his abs had to be solid. Didn't didn't look at his AB you gotta, oh my gosh. Yes, I didn't. You know, and you gotta check out the, you gotta find out,
[00:30:21] Coach Roz: gosh, gotta, that's really where that's what you get
[00:30:23] Phil: out of this show.
That's it? That's all I got outta that entire thing you just said, my gosh. Yeah, I'm sure there was more to it. But when you said coach AB I just, that's all I went to. That's it? That was.
[00:30:32] Coach Roz: Well, as we move towards conclusion, which we certainly need to do yes. On that note, on that note, you know, it, what, what is just resonating with me is are we going to make a dent in coaches deciding what kind of coach they want to be?
And that are we making a dent? We, we invest hours in sitting here playing and, and interviewing. Are we going [00:31:00] over, going to over time, make a dent when we interviewed Phil and the boys and, and said, you know, what's the answer to this. And, and, you know, for a period of time, we're sitting, looking at each other, scratching our heads.
Yeah. If we don't make a dent in this youth, youth sports are on the. Oh, I mean, so, and, and, or society is in declared. Oh yeah. Right, right. And, and, and so on this coach point I think a much more important question than this is the kind of coach I am. Is what kind of coach do I want to be? And for a fact, we're in this COVID environment right now where, you know, as well as I do more coaches at our level are sitting at home right now, doing nothing.
Mm-hmm with an opportunity to get. Knowledge to get information to just open the frigging door, to reinventing yourselves. Yeah. [00:32:00] To, to, to being transparent enough to say, Hey coach, what are my blind spots? Mm-hmm what are, what are my you know, what areas who as a coach, who am I asking? Where can I do a better job?
Where can I, where, what improvements could you could, could I be making, if we can start something where, where coaches in a safe place can ask those questions and get some information and experiment with that. Then I do have faith that we can make a dent. Yep. I do believe that kids that are quitting and, and we all know there's kids that should not be playing, but what about the ones that it's still good and useful for them?
And they quit for the wrong reason. They quit because of the negative impact, the scar that we have made. So I know I'm on [00:33:00] my high horse.
[00:33:01] Phil: I think that. It, I think we need to change it to say kids, not the kids should not be playing. I think every kid should be, should be playing right. Something, being active, getting out and doing stuff, but we've we make the sports too serious, too fast.
Yeah. In our, in our culture it's some kids should absolutely never, ever be playing competitive soccer. Yep. They're just not, they don't have the talent to do that. at that point. Right. But because again, their parents, Ooh, you're so good. Or they're paying to play or they wanna say my kids playing competitors are whatever the reason.
Right. They should know. Okay. You know what? I'm a wreck player and that's okay. Yeah. That's perfectly fine and it stays fun and it's just fun. And I, I love nothing more. I, I ref 'em sometimes I don't necessarily love reffing 'em cuz sometimes it's painful for me as a, you know, high level soccer player to watch, but these kids are having fun out there.
They're at [00:34:00] the right level at the rec level and that's more than fine. Okay. But to have them then dump them into a competitive top level thing and expect them to have fun with. Of course, they're not gonna have fun with that. That'd be a complete nightmare. And, and so I, I look at that and go, and as a coach, you need to know which is it, first of all.
And secondly, how can I in whichever one, it is, make sure that I'm preparing them for life after this sport, because whether they're the best player on their team or they're the, in the best, highest level, or they're the worst player on their team at the worst, lowest level of, of. They're going to be members of our society.
They're gonna be future, hopefully moms and dads and husbands and wives. And how can we use this opportunity to teach them those
[00:34:48] Coach Roz: things? Yeah. You know, the, the dichotomy of what you just said, I just slid that word in. I don't know what it means, but I wanted to use that's it's that's
[00:34:55] Phil: good. Did I, did I, did I throw, I don't know, keep going and I'll tell you whether you used it, right.
[00:34:59] Coach Roz: So [00:35:00] here's the dichotomy. It. When you make an actual significant point. And that really was, that was a significant point. But you also slid in that you were a high level soccer player that I
[00:35:17] Phil: don't didn't say that. I don't think I said that in there, Katie. I don't think I said that in there. Yep. Yeah.
Oh yeah. I, yeah, I was high level. I listened to that back. I don't remember saying that. Gosh, it started it's
[00:35:26] Coach Roz: happens. Happened. If you did say that, then it was for in fact, a dicho. Good point.
[00:35:34] Phil: Not necessarily. no, I don't know what that would be. You don't, it's not necessarily a dichotomy point being, I think that what you said about decide what kind of coach you want to be, that goes, bring it full circle on that.
Yeah. What is your success measure? Yep. Right? Is your success measure that I had 20 people go to D one sports in the last three [00:36:00] years. Right. Or is your success measure? My kids that graduate from my program are going to be men or women of character. What is your scorecard? And honestly, that's what it comes down to.
I love nothing more than hearing back from my, you know, the players who, who played for me and that hear how they're, you know, doing really cool things in their lives. Usually it has nothing to do with soccer. Well, but to see that they are texting me and saying, Hey, coach, Phil just said this or that, you know, we're talking about things that matter in life.
One of the girls that plays for me, we just had an amazing conversation the other day about real things that matter in life. And those are the things that bring great joy to me. And yeah, we did had great success on the field last year, but these other things are, what's gonna bring great joy to me and that's my success measure.
And so what is your success measure and what your success measure is, will determine how you're coaching and how much you're incorporating character into your [00:37:00] practice and how much you're doing these different things. So. I'm gonna say for this podcast, my success measure is not how many downloads do we get?
My success measure is be gonna be how many coaches are actually using this material and changing, or, or reinforcing what they're doing in their practices to be able to encourage them and go, you know, if, if they're either changing the ways to incorporate this stuff, or as important saying, you know, Even if everyone around, me's not doing it, these guys are reminding me that yes, what I'm doing is important and what I'm doing is right.
And it's to spur them on, to keep, keep doing what they're doing. And I will say whatever side of that, you're on. You know, I do hope that you do take what you're learning here and you will incorporate it into your next practice, into the games, into those kids' lives so that they will have, you know, the long term impact will be there.
And it won't be done at the end of this season.
[00:37:55] Coach Roz: Well, my closing comments for the, for the [00:38:00] day or this and it it's when you were talking here's what was, I was replaying in my mind. Now we're a little bit older and we have a little bit longer coaching tenure, but as you were talking, here's, here's what was going on with me as a coach.
How many weddings have I been to of my players? Mm. and, and, and, and, and I'm so privileged when I'm there and I look around and I go, gosh, it seems odd. I, I may be the only co-chair. Hmm. Okay. So that that's one. Yeah. That's one. How many family reunions have I been invited to? Not my family reunion. Right, right.
One of my, one of my kids. Yeah. Where. Where they asked me, or it was totally appropriate and obvious I should speak. Mm. I should have something to say. How many here's the other side, how many funerals have I been to? Mm. How many weddings have I been to? [00:39:00] How many baby announcements? Right? How many times does the phone ring on father's day?
And it's not one of my two daughters. Right? That's my frigging scorecard. That's my scorecard. Yeah. And that is so when I think about the possibility of a reunion of coaches that go, oh my gosh. Yep. I've been to funerals. You got no idea how many pizzas you got. No idea I've bought. You've got no idea how many times I've spoken.
I just, those are the things that you and I, in a handful of coaches know, that's the juice of coaching and mentoring that. That's the juice. Absolutely. So with that, and I'm gonna, here's that's
[00:39:45] Phil: a great place to finish. Well, no, here's gonna be, here's gonna be tearing. No, I don't. I don't know. I don't know.
We might actually see real tears keep going.
[00:39:52] Coach Roz: No. Yep. But what I will do is what I'm learning about this is, I, I really believe we've got. Important [00:40:00] things to talk about. Mm-hmm but I'm having a blast with you in doing it in a really fun way where we get to, we get to have a good time with each other.
Certainly have a good time with the people that we're yeah. That we're talking with. And this is I'm having a blast. I, I, I, I. My prayer is that this is useful. And that they're like you said, it's not about downloads. That's right. We're gonna hear from some coach that went, I didn't have anything to do today.
And I was listening to this and you've got me thinking. Yep. Yep. Wow,
[00:40:29] Phil: absolutely. This should accomplish. Absolutely. So with that folks, thank you for the download. Thank you for it. But again, if you're not taking this and, and using it, then this isn't just ear candy, where you go, oh, ha ha funny, laugh, whatever.
Now this is something that we really want you to take, what you're learning and, and use it. And, and to really challenge you to think, you know, think better about these things. You know, not that we have all the right answers by any stretch. Don't, don't hear what I'm not saying there, but these are things that [00:41:00] we've learned.
These are things that we're learning. These are things that we've done wrong. These are things, some of the things that we've, you know, Done it right. But what I do hope is that you do, you know, give us the feedback, if that's you on the other end of this right now that this affected you, this impacted you.
Please, please, please connect with us. You can do that. You can send a, a, a comment just do it at the the playmakers.org. You can go there and you can just, you know, contact us that way you can go onto coaching character on. The Facebook group that, that we have, you can go there and just leave a comment there for us, help us tell us, share with us what your learn is.
Share with us, how this has impacted you. Because again, that's, that's how we know we have success here. That's how we know that this is actually working. And again, with that Facebook group, make sure that you're also sharing there. Any guests that you have that you think would, would be great on this show as well.
[00:41:54] Coach Roz: Hey let's thank our producer. Yes, Katie, you rocked it again. Yes. Your, your comments, [00:42:00] your notes, your direction to us keeps us to whatever degree we are on point on point. She's gonna come pretty soon and just tackle one of those micro. She
[00:42:09] Phil: didn't come to the mic when you said maybe I wish she had a microphone.
Cuz I think that that was something that I was, I was gonna, you know, just do that for a second, you know, and put the mic over to her. But yeah, I absolutely agree with that. And, and so folks, again, take everything you're learning here. Use it to help you to coach character in the, in the players that you have the privilege to be with at each and every practice and game and, and beyond hopefully.
Well, after listening to all of that, again, I am once again, grateful that we were able to share this content with you. We were able to share these lost episodes, these episodes that we never were able to get out to you or anybody else. And so, I, I know We are all continually learning. if we are true leaders because leaders are learners. And I hope that you did learn from these [00:43:00] episodes of this summer. I hope that you continue to listen to this podcast as we.
Put together another season. To be able to hopefully share with you people who you may not know some of these people, you will But these are people who have great stories. They have stories, they have lessons, they have things that they've done that they've learned from that they get to share with us what they have learned from. And we're going to kick that off next week with a conversation that Paul and I are having just about our summer, about the different things that we've done over the summer about the upcoming season and the different people that we're going to have on in this upcoming season.
So I hope that you definitely tune in this next season. And I hope that you download these episodes. I hope that you learn from them. And I do hope also that if you're learning from that, that you share with others, What you're learning you share with others. The podcast so that they can learn from it as well. If you're learning from it, I have no doubt that they will learn from it as well..
Also, if you want to get involved with what Paul and Marcy Jobson are doing with warrior [00:44:00]way, you can do so warrior way soccer.com. You can also check out coaching the bigger game.com to see what I'm doing with Christian DeVries to help coaches really be able to understand. The people side of the game better to be able to lead themselves, to lead their individual team members and to lead their team, to be a healthy culture.
So with that folks, we are going to sign off for this summer series. And Paul, and I know why we do this is we hope that you're taking everything that you're learning from this show, and you're using it to help you be a better leader, to be a better spouse, to be a better parent, to be a better coach, to be better in every relationship that you have.
And to continually remind yourself that soccer does explain life and leadership. Thanks a lot. Have a great week.
In Episode 62, we are capping off 2021 and ringing in 2022 with 20 great leadership lessons (plus a couple bonus nuggets) from our interviews over the past year. There is so much more wisdom in the full interviews, which …