Feb. 9, 2023

What is Your ANCHOR? with Keeley Hagen, Colorado State Soccer Head Coach, Former Pro, and 3-time All-American

What is Your ANCHOR? with Keeley Hagen, Colorado State Soccer Head Coach, Former Pro, and 3-time All-American

In Episode 112, Keeley Hagen, Colorado State Head Coach, former assistant coach at University of Texas and University of Tennessee, former USWNT, Sky Blue FC, and Atlanta Beat player, 3-time All-American defender at University of Tennessee, and wife,...

In Episode 112, Keeley Hagen, Colorado State Head Coach, former assistant coach at University of Texas and University of Tennessee, former USWNT, Sky Blue FC, and Atlanta Beat player, 3-time All-American defender at University of Tennessee, and wife, talks with Phil and Paul about what drives her to lead her players with excellence, lessons learned from her playing and coaching career, leadership lessons gleaned from her most influential coach and from her teammates, how she is using lessons from the game in her marriage, how she is using DISC in her coaching at CSU, how she overcame injuries throughout her career, and which Jobson she most fears on the field. Specifically, Keeley discusses:

  • Her personal story, how he developed her passion for soccer, leadership, and coaching and how she got to be where he is today (4:38)
  • What is was like to coach against the legend, Paul Jobson, and who is the most intimidating presence in the Jobson household (8:08)
  • Her personal why and life purpose and how she lives it out each day (10:51)
  • The DISC training Phil did with her CSU team last summer, how she is using it with her team, and why she thinks it is important for coaches to understand it and use it with their teams (12:58)
  • Some defining moments in her playing career and what she learned from them (18:24)
  • How she navigates shying away from adversity and injuries when we know how much our kids learn from overcoming adversity (22:01)
  • What her injuries taught her about life and her identity (25:15)
  • Her message to people going through injury recovery (27:33)
  • Her most influential coach and the life and leadership lessons learned from her (28:40)
  • Her advice to young assistant coaches in the college ranks (33:04)
  • Things she is using as a head coach that she only learned because she was an assistant first (36:47)
  • Players she played with that had the greatest impact on her, and what she learned from them (41:10)
  • How she has used lessons learned from the game in her marriage (44:18)
  • Her book recommendations (48:27)

Resources and Links from this Episode


Phil: Welcome back to How Soccer Explains Leadership. Thanks again for being a part of the conversation. I am excited to tell you again that I got my co-host Paul Jobson. I'm Phil Darke, and we have another fun episode in store for us today. We will be getting to Keeley Hagen here in a few minutes. She is the Colorado State Soccer coach, and she's been so much more than that in her life.

So we're gonna get into that here in a few minutes. but before that Paul, how are you doing, man? I know that your, you know, soft Texas skin is not quite dealing with the cold weather very well, but as, as we were talking with Keeley before we recorded, she's at negative zero as we found out there in Colorado.

So how, how are you doing other than, than just, you know, not being able to cope with the cold weather?

[00:00:49] Paul: I'm just thankful I'm not in negative zero weather. Yes. And just dealing with 31, 30 degrees. My kids are like, please let it snow because they want to miss school. And I'm like, [00:01:00] no, no, we can't miss school.

We gotta go to school. So, yeah. It's great though, you know, like a little cold weather. Never really hurt anybody that bad. Right. As long as I can stay indoors and keep my jacket on , I'm all good, man. So

[00:01:13] Phil: I think cold weather has hurt people that bad, but not 31 degrees. I don't think so. I think you're, I think you're gonna be all right.

I saw something cool. I, real quick on and we're not gonna be able to get into it deeply, but I wanna just kinda remind ourselves to talk about this really cool wrestling trip that your son had with Marcy. It looks like, I don't know if you were able to go on that as well, but Iowa State, something along those lines and got to do something really cool.

[00:01:36] Paul: So Yeah. Yeah. Really, really cool opportunity to, to go up. Marcy went with Nash by herself. I stayed home with the other three hooligans here in Waco. But yeah, great opportunity through a connection that we have some great, great people to meet. David Carr, who's a, an amazing, not only an amazing wrestler, but just an amazing human being.

And Nash and Marci had the opportunity to go up there and spend some time with them and watch a couple of wrestling [00:02:00] matches and spend some time just just really learning from just some amazing athletes up there and how they do and how they go about what they do. Just a great experience for a young athlete and just blessed that he was able to, to do that.

So, yeah, just really cool. At some point we'll get to talk through the wrestling stuff. I know we keep talking about it. This is a soccer podcast, but yes. How other sports relate to what we do and the leadership models that come through other coaches and other sports are some things we like to tap into at times.

But yeah, just a great experience great people up there at Iowa State. So, yeah, it was really an amazing trip for, for them. And I'm just learning all the highs and highs of it all as we speak.

[00:02:36] Phil: Yeah. Yeah. So I, I'm excited to get into that. Dig deeper at a different show than today. Couple other things we'll talk about.

One of the things we've mentioned in the past is when my kids were little, I trained 'em in at goalkeeping. I said, you never know when you're gonna, you never know when your team's gonna need a keeper, you know, an emergency keeper. So it's good to learn this position even if you don't wanna play it. Well, this year my daughter has had [00:03:00] two, well, now three stints at goalkeeper.

She's a striker by trade, but she, she happened to be thrown in as a freshman varsity against our rival league rival, and then at the cross town cup, which is our, you know, Cross town rival. So she was put in front of both of those games, which happened to be two of our bigger crowds. So I'm proud of her, but we'll be double to talk about that too.

Just that idea of, you know, always being ready for what might be thrown at you. But that's not what we have today. Today we have Keeley Hagen and Keeley, as I said, is currently the Colorado State Coach, which is why I am sporting this shirt, which she handed me herself when I was out there doing DISC training with her, which we're gonna get into a little bit later.

Very nice. But Keeley, how are you doing

[00:03:43] Keeley: today? Doing great, minus zero. Just making us tougher over here, whether we wanna be or not. So I'm really excited to be here, so thanks for having me,

[00:03:51] Phil: guys. Absolutely. Well, we always talk about resilience and overcoming adversity on this show, so, you know, this weather is just allowing us to put that [00:04:00] into practice.

So I'm, I'm, you know, glad you're all, you know, dressed up warm. So if you'll be comfortable for this conversation and you know, the first thing we, we always love to talk with our guests about, and I mentioned a little bit of what you're doing now, but I want just you to briefly share your story, you know, including how you developed your passion for soccer, coaching leadership, and how you ended up with that cool beanie of the Colorado State Ram on your head out there coaching a group of great young women.

[00:04:28] Keeley: Yeah. I'll try to be brief. You know, it's certainly been a journey of, of highs and lows just as life is for. , most everybody started playing soccer when I was four. Grew up in Indiana. Fortunate to have some really great coaches when I was young.

Specifically Ian Martin. He was our college. He was a college coach at Butler for men's. So just right, right from the get go. Getting great coaching very successful club team back in the days when state championships were a thing and winning regional championships. We won regional championships and runner up national championship.

Decided to go to [00:05:00] University of Tennessee to continue on and had a wonderful experience there. Head with head coach Ang Kelly was fortunate to win our first ever SEC championship there for Tennessee. But prior to that which is probably a question later there was a two-year journey to try out for the U-19 national team and was fortunate to win a World Cup my sophomore year, and that was the same year that we won our SEC championship.

Was fortunate to have a great career. You know, I feel like I've checked the injury box. Pretty much my whole, my whole career, I'm not a very durable athlete. So, that's kind of helped me now, you know, being a coach to be able to relate there. After Tennessee went to Sweden for two years to play in there.

Per Premier League and really enjoyed just being another culture. I didn't learn a lick of Swedish because everybody wanted to practice their English. So don't ask me any Swedish words. So that was an awesome experience. Came back. . This is kind of where my coaching you know, began really just fell into the position cuz I was waiting [00:06:00] for what is now NWSL.

It was the WPS to start up because the previous WUSA had folded and that was where the assistant coach at Tennessee decided she wanted to be a full-time mom. And I was there training in the off season, waiting for the league to start and got offered the assistant coaching position under the, the stipulations with the athletic director that I could still play professional soccer.

So don't think that would happen now, but I was able to do both. And so got drafted to go play at Sky Blue for the first year. And it was an extremely dramatic year. I feel like we, we talk about it, we should write a book on it because we had three coaches and it was like everything that went wrong went wrong except we won a championship.

So that was an incredible experience. For that first year. And then second year was in Sky Blue again. And then last year I was in Atlanta and that was the worst season I think I've had in my career, tore my ACL that year as well. And then at that point coach Kelly got offered the position at Texas and so I decided to hang up, hang up my boots head [00:07:00] to University of Texas and Austin was there for about nine and a half years.

And then Colorado State called in June of 2021 and they checked some pretty big boxes. Family being the biggest one here. My husband's family south of Denver and got here and it's a beautiful college campus. I feel like Colorado's a, a strong soccer state and now I'm about a year and a half in, so that's, that's the nutshell from a soccer standpoint.

[00:07:25] Phil: Yeah. You know, one thing. It, it's, it's implicit in what you said. Not a lot of people know that. But you were on the sideline with Paul when you were coaching against Baylor and you know, I, I know Paul. He's yelling all the time and he's just, you know, tearing into people. And how was it to coach against the, the legend that is now the retired, you know, guy ba on the beach, you know, just drinking his pina colada in retirement.

Now, what was it like to coach against this man? I just can't even imagine the, the pressure you felt when you were just standing next to him.  

[00:07:58] Keeley: I mean, it, [00:08:00] it was epic. I, I'll never forget it. Every moment we played Baylor was awesome. I mean, it's you know, the. He did, they did a great job there and, and every game was a fight as usual.

And I, I've played with his wife, with and against his wife, and so obviously we had a little bit of a prior relationship, but obviously Paul, what you've, what you did at Baylor was phenomenal. And you know, my time at Texas, we didn't, I didn't win a championship or we didn't win a championship there, and they won a few.

And it was always a ruthless battle. And to be honest, that's, I'm trying to get my teams to, to play as hard as, as his teams do. So, that's something that we're, we're working on doing here, but legendary, let's use that word

[00:08:35] Phil: 100%. That's what I know you guys are

[00:08:37] Paul: told that you guys are totally full of it.

I definitely, and,

[00:08:40] Phil: So who for sure who's more intimidating? That's, that's a question I really wanted. Who's more intimidating? Paul or Marci?

[00:08:47] Keeley: Well, I'm gonna have to easy, I'm gonna have to with Marci because I, I avoided as many tackles and, and air balls as possible when playing against her. So, you know, you always have those players that make an impression throughout your career [00:09:00] andFor as little time as I was at least around her with a national team, she certainly made an impression on me. And you know, I, I've never told her that hopefully she'll listen to this at some point. But definitely her, I mean, it's, it's, you don't wanna play against a player like her. And, and again, those are the great players out there because hey, I, I want her on my team cause I don't wanna get an a tackle with her.


[00:09:20] Phil: absolutely. So kinda a lie detector. There's a family test there. I'm on her team . That was a lie detector right there. I just wanted to make sure, if you didn't say Marci there, then I would've known that we, I don't know if I could have trusted anything else you said the rest of the the rest of the interview.

So, listen, Keeley,

[00:09:33] Paul: hey Keeley's smart enough to know that everybody out there knows who's the most intimidating in my family. It's not me. You know, it's, it's definitely, definitely Marcy. So I think that a better question is who's more intimidating? Ang Kelly or Marci Jobson. Those are two fierce women in the game of soccer for sure.

So, . But you're right tho those matches between Texas and Baylor were always, I mean, just always great matches. And obviously we always had a ton of respect for you guys and how you guys went about what you were doing and building [00:10:00] a just a great program now that now is starting to see really a lot of the success winning a couple championships now, and you, you were part of just really building the base for, for what's, what's going on now.

And I'm excited to see you know, what you're gonna be able to do at Colorado State. I've, I've always, always thought that once you got a head coaching job, it was gonna be an amazing opportunity for, for young women to, to work with you. So I'm excited to see what you're gonna be doing there.

[00:10:22] Keeley: Yeah.


[00:10:23] Paul: you. Yeah. What kind of going into that, like as you, as you're navigating now being a head coach and we'll kind of get into the dynamics of what it means to be an assistant and what it means to be a head coach, but through all of that, have you, have you kind of developed a, a why? Like what is your, what is your personal why?

[00:10:41] Keeley: Yeah. You know, this was a great question that I got beforehand, and so I wanted to put some thought into it and, and not necessarily be you know, kind of a cookie cutter answer. I think a big part of who I am is my faith, and, you know, I, I let recruits know that when they come in and you know, my, my team knows that's where I stand.

Obviously, we have some [00:11:00] restrictions that you, you fall at a, a public institution. And but for me it's, I'm in this position now as a head coach, and it is different being an assistant because the, the final decisions are, are on you. And ultimately it's to reflect a life of Jesus and be that model.

And then also just to be a positive influence in young ladies' lives because I am trying to use the gifts that God has given me and that's the platform that I have. And you know, that's, that's a big responsibility and I don't take that lightly.

[00:11:27] Phil: Yeah. You know, and that's, that's it always excites me to hear that name.

Paul and I both obviously share, share the faith and, and it, it's something that goes so much deeper than just a, just a statement, right? Like, cuz when you say that, reflecting the life of Jesus and, and to be able to live that out, you know, one of those things that we've been working on together that I've, I've loved working on with you is, is the DISC model of human behavior.

And to, to see, you know, we talked about that, you know, Jesus is the perfect example of that, right? Like, he knew exactly who he needed to be at any [00:12:00] given moment, with every person that he connected with. And, you know, as humans, hopefully we're striving for that, right? Hopefully we're striving to understand ourselves and we're striving to understand our, our, the people that.

In our lives. Right? And as coaches, we have a group of people that are in our lives regularly, day in, day out. And so that's something that, you know, we, we did that, we did the disc training in the preseason this last year, and I know you've taken it beyond where a lot of teams take it. And a lot of teams are gonna do the training and then do a little bit here and there.

We talk with Keri Sanchez, she's putting it into practice as well at Colorado College. But can you just talk about that a little bit? You know, the, the DISC training that we did, really how are you're using it with your team and why you think it's important for coaches and, and players to understand it and use it with their teams.

[00:12:48] Keeley: Yeah, I mean, I think the buzzword is culture and you know, it's hard to win games, and if your culture's not right, it's gonna be that much harder. Another word people choose to use is chemistry. So, for us, we know that's a big thing. [00:13:00] You, you gotta have talent to win. If you don't have speed, you're chasing it.

You know, there's those necessary parts. But the, the reason why I like DISC is first and foremost is just self-awareness. You know, it's when people . Like, do they wanna talk about themselves? A lot of times they do, maybe sometimes they don't. But to learn about yourself and how you are the way you are, why the way you are.

I think it's, it's very interesting for each one of our young ladies to be like, oh, like this makes sense about me. And when they fill out the questionnaire, it's like, so every time Phil, you, you know, brought something up about a d and the D's in the room like lit up, cuz they're like, oh, I wanna hear more about me.

You know, that just kind of caught on and I could see that in the room. Um, I think the second part and this is the most important part, is once you learn about yourself and have that self-awareness, you start to think about how you speak to others and what do they need. And I think that's the next level of maturity that we wanna continue to grow you know, with this particular team and culture.

And hey, you need to be considerate about your tone and, and how you're speaking to people and how it. Come off. [00:14:00] And so those are the things that we've continued with having little homework sessions of, Hey, let's get the D'S together and, and ask questions and how do you like to talk on the field?

And then let's get the D's and the S's together. Now we have a, a totally different situation and how are they communicating? And the end of the day, you know, athletics makes you tougher, right? If you're in that environment. So, you know, the, the underlining is, Hey, let's give a little grace when you're competing and you're, you're in warrior mode, right?

Because we're trying to win. But at the same time, be a little bit conscientious of you know, this is a people, this is a human being. You may need to put your arm around them at the end of the game and, and be compassionate and empathetic. But it's sure, sure as heck a lot better when you get the w and and do that than, than lose, for sure.

[00:14:44] Phil: Yeah, definitely. So have you noticed with yourself, as far as understanding it deeper, has it affected you as a coach as well? .

[00:14:52] Keeley: Uh, Yeah, I mean I think as soon as you switch over from assistant to head coach your level of patience definitely steps up for [00:15:00] sure. You know, I think you know, I've always been taught be harder on the front end, you know, so from that standpoint I've made sure to do that.

I think from an empathetic standpoint I've also had to be a little bit more empathetic I think DISC because of my personality and, and I think I'm a DC and so it's like, it's great that my staff has a little opposite than me because, you know, that kind of works itself out with the team. But long answer is yes.

I think it's helped just to continue to remind myself, okay, I need to maybe scale it back a little bit in some situations and not be as critical cause that seems to be my personality.

[00:15:34] Phil: Yeah. No, and I've, I've noticed in the, in the conversations we've had, and even just the, the little I've seen you with the team it, it appears to me that you're, you're working on, I mean, just the fact that you're digging in with homework assignments and you're having the, the players and we even had, you know, have had follow up session and talking about doing more.

That, that's a huge part of it is just continuing to understand. Again, like you said, understand yourself, understand your players, have them understand [00:16:00] themselves and understand each other. And just the fact that you're doing it shows them that it's important and that it's something that is really a part of the game and not just some tact on thing that is like, well, let's just do this thing cuz it's the latest and greatest.

No, this is really important and, and we're gonna apply it. So yeah, I'm excited to see, see how it continues to develop that culture that I know you want and you're, you're pouring into that, that team.

[00:16:26] Paul: I wanna switch gears a little bit. You know, we did a little bit of the DISC stuff when I was at Baylor, had Phil come in and it was a great, a great practice and unfortunately probably did it too late cuz it wasn't long after I, I left so I didn't get to see the full piece of it. But I found even for myself I would sit down with, before I would meet with a player and I would look at their profile, it would help me kind of navigate how that conversation might go before it, even whether there's a good conversation or just to check in or whatever.

It didn't really matter. I'm like, okay, I wanna make sure I'm most prepared to, to meet with these players. And I found that to be pretty help, pretty helpful in, in that scenario too. Have you, [00:17:00]have you exercised that as well?

[00:17:02] Keeley: Yeah, I mean we, we definitely wrote down, especially when we're on the field, you know, who, who needs some more positivity and who needs kind of the one-on-one pull off the field and, and you coach 'em that way and not, not out loud.

I think that's been the thing that's helped us the most be to try to get more out of the young lady. Cuz you know, a lot of players initially be like, oh, I need you to yell at me. But they really don't , they really don't want that . So that, I think that's been the challenge to really just continue that open dialogue of, Hey, we're coaching, we're not criticizing.

Right. And we're trying to, to get the best out of you and, and just re it's a constant reminder you know, whether it's within their disk or not, that we're, we're resource and we're here to help. That's the thing that I've kind of found of, of the how part changes with, with their personality profile.


[00:17:49] Paul: That's awesome. Well, let's, let's, let's Let's talk about you a little bit. All right. Cuz this is about Keeley Hagen, the, the podcast about Keeley Hagen here. So let's focus on you a little bit. What are, [00:18:00] you know, and I think this helps define who we are as people when we talk about just defining moments, what were some defining moments, maybe one or two defining moments in your playing career.

What did you learn from that? How has that impacted, you know, maybe you even a, as a coach? Yeah, so I think

[00:18:14] Keeley: there's two that, that stand out for me. One is our, the two year tryout for the U-19 national team. It was literally two years. Within that two-year period, I had a really bad ankle injury. I was out for I think three months.

I missed the qualifier like stage for the World Cup. So really had to fight my way back. And I was a captain at the time. And you know, I think the, the perseverance there, the adversity and just, you know, I wanted to make the team and so I had to work myself back there. And then, we finally obviously got to the World Cup in Canada and went through the group stages and I wasn't playing that much at all because I had just, you know, been coming back.

And finally, we'd gotten to a team where I started to getting more minutes. And then the last game the coaches were like, Hey, you're gonna start the night before I had food poisoning. [00:19:00] And I woke up in the morning and I'd been puking all night. My face was like all green and so they just gave me some medicine.

They were like, can you go? And I'm like, sure, sure, let's do it. And you know, it's like when you, when you flip that switch and you have the adrenaline, there's, you know, 50,000 people. There's incredible atmosphere. There were 50 American fans and it was just all of our families and we ended up going into overtime, we ended up winning.

And just the emotion that that poured out of me afterwards, I was like, stunned. But it was like, you know, a moment where I was like, man, I just went through this entire journey and you got what you wanted at the end, and sometimes you don't. And so, I think that experience for me helped me mature and, and I learned a lot about myself, that I could do more than I thought I could and just, you know, kind of catapulted me into the next phase of my career.

Um, I think the, the second one that stands out would be my third season playing pro. I tore my ACL that year and was like a losing season. And so, you know, [00:20:00] now things are going wrong, terribly wrong. And what is my response, right? How can I be a good teammate? How can I s. You know, still continued to model the person that I want on model and despite the adversity.

And so leaving that season kind of feeling empty, but also feeling like, you know what it wasn't about the results. It wasn't about you know, our team results or personal results, but, but how did I respond during that time of adversity? What did people see? So at the end of the day, you know, I left that season being like, Hey, I was a good teammate regardless of, of what happened, right?

Because it's easy to, it's easy to be a, a good person when everything's going your way. And so I think for me, I was like, okay, like that's the person I wanna be. I wanna be consistent of who I am. And you know, those were couple moments in my career that challenged that.

[00:20:47] Paul: Yeah, I, I think that's something that gets missed a lot as.

I think as players and as coaches sometimes it, it's, it's those adversity moments that really kind of define who you are. And, and not just that, but also just the [00:21:00] experiences you had help you relate to every person on your roster, right? I mean, you, you basically can look at your team and go, whatever you've experienced, I I or you're going to experience, I probably have already, you know?

And, and that's such an important piece of, of being a coach, cuz you can look them in the eye and go, yeah, I, I absolutely know what you're talking about. , you know, they may not believe you right away, but it's true. And how, how have you seen, you know, I, I love the, I don't love that you had to go through adversity, but I think now it seems like we try to avoid adversity.

Players try to avoid adversity. Parents try to keep kids from adversity. As coaches, we don't want our players necessarily to go through it because it may create other problems. How do you kind of navigate that adversity or staying shying away from adversity problem when you, when you know, even through your own experiences that those were some really defining moments for you.

[00:21:51] Keeley: Yeah. I mean, I think we just talk about it and then we do it and we remind them and we talk about it again, and then we do it. So it's, it's trying to put the words in the action [00:22:00] of, Hey, this is tough. It's tough for a reason and it's gonna make you tougher. It's, you're only gonna be tough if you're put in a tough environment.

You can say that you wanna be tough, but unless you actually go through it it doesn't, you know, I as iron sharpens iron right? I think it's one of those things is reminding them because it's that important on a constant basis of, hey, failure is growth. Right? And then Kobe Bryant doesn't believe in failure when he lost.

Right. And it's like, you know, how, how can we grow when things are tough? What are you learning about your yourself when things get hard? And so having those conversations and actually like acknowledging like, Hey, I just did that. Or Hey, I didn't do that, and what did I learn about myself? So if it's something in my mind, if it's something that's really important, you've gotta talk about it and remind them every day.

And that's one of those things, it's, it's setting you up for what we're doing here now is setting you up for life. So when you do have those hard moments, you can feel like, Hey, I, I just went through four years of being a student athlete. It was really freaking [00:23:00] hard and I can do this.

[00:23:02] Paul: Yeah. That's awesome.

Uh, So I wanna make sure we're clear that our listeners understand Keeley. So if, if I. Just post on social media that I am tough. That doesn't, or you're saying that doesn't make me tough.

[00:23:14] Keeley: Yeah. No. That's not gonna make you tough at

[00:23:16] Paul: all. . It's not gonna do it. It's not gonna do it. Yeah. No, I, I love that. I fully agree with you.

The communication piece is so, so critical, and I think you hit it right on the head. I think there are a lot of coaches that miss that part. It's like, why don't they get it? Why don't they get it? It's our job as coaches to tell them, tell them again, just when you think they've got it, you've gotta tell 'em again.

Yeah. And then you're probably gonna have to tell 'em some more. Right. And that's just kinda the role of a coach. And you can get frustrated or you can push through as a coach. And, and if you do it long enough, you see the results down the road where you get phone calls from players that say, , you know, I'm 30 something now.

I've got kids, and man, I missed those days when we used to run fitness tests, like, you know, those were great moments as, as a, as an old coach to get those, those text messages and phone calls because you, you know, you had a [00:24:00] part in them becoming resilient and, and tough. Yeah. Yep.

[00:24:05] Phil: Yeah, definitely. You know, and, and you just described, you know, so many areas of life there, Paul.

Right. You know, I heard that, I remember Andy Stanley talking about that. The vi with vision, you know, you, you gotta talk about vision and keep talking about vision and keep, keep talking about vision. And when you think you're so sick of talking about vision, you're probably about halfway there. And, and the, I think that that goes for our teams too.

You know, we can, we can talk about it if you just say it once, you know, and it's just not gonna, it's not gonna stick. And so you gotta, you gotta not only say it, but you gotta show that it matters. You gotta live it out. You gotta be consistent. They're watching us as coaches for sure. You know, this, this is something that I, I just want to kind of stay on that injury front for a little bit.

What we talked a little bit about what it, you know, taught you about life and what you taught about leadership and what taught you, how you taught, brought that into coaching as far as that resilience, being able to empathize with the player, which is a big part of it. But what did that of those injuries really teach you about, you know, just life and, and [00:25:00] you personally, just your identity and what really matters?

[00:25:05] Keeley: Yeah, I mean, I think it's the process. It's, it's not necessarily one day at a time, but one moment at a time. So for me, taking over, you know, being a head coach, it's, it's a lot of prayer because I don't know everything and it's, I wanna continue to be in a humble state. And it's asking for help regularly.

So I think it's that's consistent when you're, you know, hitting some adversity and, and in injuries, it's all right, I gotta do lunch for the first time. And it's that process and just do it the best that you can. . And you know, if the doctors are telling you that everything's fixed, then great. Trust that and do the best you can.

And so that's kind of the message I think that we push a lot with our team is it's, it's about the process. How can you improve? If you improve? The team improves. And it's, it's one drill at a time, right? And for me that's, that's life. We don't know if we're gonna have tomorrow. So you gotta make the best of the day.

And I know that sounds very cliche, but at the same time, like [00:26:00] I think we've all seen in the past three years life can throw some crazy things at you with covid and just all kinds of stuff. And we're, we're pretty grateful for what we have and our health that we have. And so it's, it's the moment by moment things that for me that's, that's what what helped get me through.

And, and obviously again, my faith is just asking for help and all the time. , not, sometimes it's all the time because the second you don't, you think you gotta figure it out. You don't. And so that's, that's kind of my stance.

[00:26:31] Phil: Yeah. You know, and I, I know with my wife, she had four, four knee surgeries playing soccer.

You know, she actually played at Colorado College back in the day and four knee surgeries. And I remember her talking about that, you know, with our kids, even as our kids are playing soccer and you know, she's saying, look, you know, soccer can't be everything. It can't be all that you are, you have to be more than, than a game or a sport or whatever.

And, and she goes that honestly, she, she said, I'd never really thought about that until I was sitting on the, the, in [00:27:00] the, with the, she was, I saw the physical therapist or the, you know, trainer more than I saw my coach. Yeah. And she said at that point, I, I just, I, I knew this wa game wasn't gonna be the pro route that she thought she might go and all this other stuff.

And what would you say to that, that kid that, you know, maybe adult that's going through that right now? As far as, as far as that part, that side of it? Yeah. I mean, I

[00:27:23] Keeley: think You don't know until you go through it, right? Like, you don't know what you don't know. And so how, how can you use people as resources, ask for help?

I think that's a big thing. And you know, lean, lean on your family, lean on resources. I mean, it's, it's, until you go through it, does it actually impact you? Right? And I think that's the empathy side of things. It's easier to be empathetic when, Hey, I've already, I've done this. I, I know what that's like.

But maybe sometimes it's just saying, Hey, I'm really sorry you're going through this. And that person is like, okay. Like, Hey, you just gotta keep grinding and just, just little by little and you'll s you'll look back and see the growth and try to recognize [00:28:00] and reflect those, those growths that you've had.

[00:28:03] Phil: Yeah, definitely. All right, so switching gears a little bit, going away from you to the coaches that have coached you and you know that you've played for. . I know that you've been taught a ton by all the different coaches that you've, you've played for, but what is one of the coaches that you've, that just sticks out what separates her h him or her from, from the rest of those coaches and you know, really how are you using those lessons today in your

[00:28:30] Keeley: coaching?

Yeah, I mean, I think I'd be remiss to not say Ang Kelly because she recruited me when I was 16 and you know, I, gosh, other. , you know, a few years that I was in Sweden, I'd always come back to Knoxville to train. And, you know, I think she saw something in me that I knew was in there, but I, I kind of had a chip on my shoulder because I, I didn't make the national team until later and, and really believed that she's the coach that could get me there.

And she told me that, and obviously she followed through on [00:29:00] that. But yeah, I mean, from 16 until, gosh, 38 she was a big part of my life. She was a maid of honor in my wedding. And you know, I can't say enough in terms of the first thing I took away from her as a coach was just mental toughness, you know, and obviously her playing experience and background is phenomenal and she certainly made me mentally tougher.

But I think that, I think the thing that has been long lasting for me is based off of my personality. I'm very task oriented and not people oriented. I know that might surprise you guys, but she is very much a people person and one of the most generous people I've ever met in my life. I mean, she's taking care of me beyond and, and even my family you know, since I've been coaching with her.

So for me it's just how do you connect with people. She is a super connector and she is so good at making people feel comfortable and making a situation that could be uncomfortable, comfortable. So I think that's the biggest takeaway for me is, is figuring out how to be more of a connector, [00:30:00]because I'm more of like, Hey, let's just get these tasks done and check the boxes.

And , she couldn't be more opposite than me in that which is why I was a good assistant for her because I could. Be a master of box checkers. And she's walking around talking to all these people and I'm like, Ang, what are you doing? You're not getting anything done. And she's like, no, actually I am Keeley.

And so, that's, that's really she's been such a huge part of my life and, and still continues to be so,

[00:30:25] Phil: and I, I will just encourage you to continue being who you are and doing what you do because I am, I can totally relate with Ang more than than you. And I love when I find a you to help me and, you know, to be able to be that because I will never be that really well.

And if I have to do, and same way, if you had to do what she does, you'd burn out real fast if you had to do that every day. So to find that person who can do that and for you to be able to do what you do really well, and obviously as a head coach, you need to wear that hat at [00:31:00] some level, but, You know, you can also get a great assistant who does that too, and be able to, you know, do what you do really, really well and just kind of dabble in the other stuff so you don't burn out on it.

And that, that's, that's something that I think is a, is a great lesson there too, that she probably, I'm guessing she knew herself earlier, she knows herself really well, so she surrounds herself with people like yourself who will do those things she doesn't like to do. And. ? No. Sure she could. She can, but you know, you don't

[00:31:29] Keeley: have to.

Oh, she, she definitely tells me, yeah, she could do all the things that I can do, like for sure. , right? It's just, she, she just wants me to do them, so, but she knows how to do all of them, and that's, that's the great thing about, and is she will, if she absolutely needs to. But you know, her and I worked together for 14 years and so, that's a, that's a really long time and that's why it was a really hard decision for me to leave.

I mean, I, I was in my comfort zone and felt like we were at a really good position to, to win. And obviously they did, which is awesome. And um, but at the same time it's, you know, it was [00:32:00]time for me to step out in faith and felt like it was the right decision. And but very difficult decision, you know, really leaving my best.

[00:32:08] Paul: Hmm. Yeah. That's awesome. We, you know, we talk a lot as coaches about building, building teams, right. Recruiting, bringing in the right players, but a lot of times we forget, part of building a great team is having the right staff around you. Right. And, and I feel like has always done a great job of that. And I feel like we've been blessed one, because, you know, me and Marci were a great team and still are a great team, but, and having Chuck around and all the, you know, all the different coaches, like building a team as a staff is almost just as critical.

Maybe not, maybe more critical than the, the team that you bring in year to year. As your players, as you kind of went through the ranks of like, you know, being an assistant coach and, and learning what that role was, what, what, what's some advice that you could give maybe some young aspiring coaches that are either about to become assistants or are currently assistants right now?

[00:32:54] Keeley: Gosh. Yeah. So I mean, I think the biggest, biggest advice is, is trust your head coach [00:33:00] and have open communication and ask the why, ask the questions, and don't assume I think I got into a little bit of you know, trouble with that, just being an assistant of, because Angie and I knew each other so well, and I was like, well, why are you doing this?

And, and, but I could have that healthy dialogue with her and she would tell me. And so I think it's you know, as an assistant, you don't know everything that's going on behind the scenes that the head coach is having to deal with, for lack of a better word. So I think it's just trusting that you know, they have ultimately the best interest, you know, for you.

For the assistant and also for the team. And then to just come ask so you can learn. Cuz ultimately my job now is to help develop my assistants to be a head coach if that's what they wanna do. So I also needed them to, to be challenging me cause I don't want yes people. So I think that's the second thing is, is be challenging to your head coach at the right time.

I didn't do that very well with Ang there. My timing was terrible. So that's another thing she helped me with. and then, and then just ask questions. And, and the [00:34:00] third thing is, is be as supportive and proactive as you can. I think that's the thing is try to put the head coach lens on and think okay, what do I need to be prepared for tomorrow?

Or what do I need to be prepared for two days from now? Right. I think those are the three things that for me as an assistant I learned over the years. And there were times that I feel like I was great and there are times that I felt like I was cr a really crappy assistant and, and I'm sure Anang and was so patient with me, which is one of her strengths as well.

But obviously I, I give her so much credit for being able to be in this position now.

[00:34:33] Phil: And I would say Paul, like that, what you just described there goes for any. Not just assistant coaches, but this leading from the middle concept, I think that was, that right there was just gold for anyone that is, has leadership aspirations.

But to be a great leader, you gotta be a great follower and you need to understand what that looks like and how you can actually lead from the middle by asking those questions, by challenging at [00:35:00]the right time, in the right way. And that's, that's something that, you know, we talked to even our players about is it's, it's good to, you know, challenge us in, in what we, we do, but in the right way at the right time.

And not, not coming to us after a game and yelling at us and telling we did something wrong. That's not the right time as somebody did this year. You know, but to be able to do that in an appropriate way. And so I just, I so appreciate that answer. I just wanted go back, rewind that, listen to that again.

Cause there was a lot of really important good stuff in there.

[00:35:27] Paul: Yeah, I was gonna say that too, Phil. , definitely young, young, aspiring coaches, and even some of us are veterans. It's good to, to hear that again. So I would, I would encourage you to go back and rewind that. And can you rewind, is that what it's called?

Just go back. I don't know if rewind my cassette Safe days. Yeah,

[00:35:41] Phil: right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Don't let the ribbon get caught and that need to give it breaks. You can't listen to it anymore, so.

[00:35:48] Paul: Absolutely. You just blew, like, you just lost all the, all the kids under 35 years old . But but that's some great stuff.

You know, through, through that process, Keely, obviously you, you were blessed to have just an [00:36:00] amazing mentor, you know, as a head coach with an Kelly and have interacted, you know, had the opportunity to interact at a high level and a lot of high level coaches. But, you know, I don't know the best way to ask this question, but your, your role as an assistant, I mean, you kind of just went through the things that are important of being an assistant.

What are the things that you think you take from being a, an assistant for so long? What are the things you're taking from that that have really set you up to be a, a successful head coach?

[00:36:28] Keeley: I, yeah,

[00:36:28] Paul: I think, and let, let me, sorry. Let me add on to that. What are the things that you think you may have missed had you just gone straight into being a head coach and not having been an assistant? Oh

[00:36:37] Keeley: my gosh. I would've missed everything. . Yeah. I don't, I don't, I don't, I said that because I've worked at Texas, I feel like I can run the country. I mean, that's a joke, but like, there, there's so many things. As an assistant, I think

One of the really important takeaways that I heard from a coach as soon as I got this head coaching position was, be organized. You've gotta be organized. And as an assistant, I, [00:37:00] you know, we, especially when we took over at Texas, like that was the thing. It was like I was getting every little thing that makes up a, I say it's like running a small business, right?

Mm-hmm. , you've got so many pieces to the pie that has to be organized you know, from the top down and how Ang wanted it done. And I think that for me it was every little thing to your recruiting platform. To making sure your compliance issues are going well, to connecting with your alumni to making sure your re recruiting database is good.

I mean, there's, there's endless things that, you know, as a head coach, it's like, it just becomes second nature because I've done it so long and, and went through those processes so much. I, I'll tell a quick. I'll never forget the very first time I went on a road trip as an assistant coach at the University of Tennessee, Ang leaned forward.

And she's like, Hey, we need to do, and she went through 10 things. We knew this, this, we have to think about this, this, this. And I'm sitting there like, my mind is blown cuz I'm like, wait a minute. Like we don't just sit on [00:38:00] the bus and hang out like as a, because that's what I did as a player. Yeah. . And so, I'm not sure I'm answering your questions, but just getting the repetitions of organizing your, the program and all the little finite details that go into it, because at the end of the day, you want your players to love to come to training, love to compete, and not necessarily feel the resistance that we, we have to go through as coaches because of, you know, whether it's the administration or could be a number of things.

Scheduling, I mean, that's another thing that you're just, it's non nonstop. So, , long-winded answer, but just getting those reps and asking questions and being a sponge and taking notes and being organized.

[00:38:43] Paul: That's funny. You, Keeley, you just described yourself a little bit as a player and what you thought happened on the coaching staff.

How many times as a coach do you hear from your players? Like, so like, when's the seasons over? Like what do you do? Yeah. You know, what do you do when you're not prac, when you don't have to lead a practice? It's like, oh yeah, we don't really do anything else other than lead [00:39:00] practices. So,

[00:39:00] Keeley: yeah. Yeah. And, and sometimes I'll tell them, like, I'll just be like, Hey, this was, this is what, this is the deal.

And you don't go into the details, but it's like, I'm sitting in this office and it's not like I'm just sitting here all day, like thinking about soccer drills. I mean, we kind of joked about that, you know, 10% of our job is actually coaching on the field, right. And it, and it is organizing so many other things.

So the business is running and it's smooth and. You know, it's somewhat of a customer service, but you're, you're developing human beings who are the ages of 1721, and you want them to be able to leave your program having a positive experience, even though it's tough and, and they're gonna hit adversity and they're gonna be unhappy at times because they're not playing.

It didn't pan out the way that they thought. So you've gotta work through those conversations. Yeah, it's it's a lot

[00:39:51] Phil: you hit on the head when you call it, when you said it's like running a small business. Yeah. I mean, as you're describing this, it reminds me of like running a small nonprofit. It's, it's [00:40:00] the same, you're wearing a million hats.

People wonder what you do all day. People are saying, oh, well what are you doing? How come you're. You're not literally feeding a kid, so what are you actually doing? You know? I don't get it. And it's, and so I, I, you know, we, we wanna help people understand that these lessons we're learning, they, they carry over literally into everything you're doing.

And so, I mean, it goes to being a, a, you know, a parent as well, right, Paul? It's like, you know, your kids wonder like, what do you guys do when we're not at home? Like, you guys don't do anything. And then, oh, you actually work. You know, my son, can you play dad? Well, and I'm working right now. Well, you know, and well, when are you done?

Five minutes, two minutes? Like, how long is it gonna take? Right? So I, I think that that, that goes into so many different areas and it's yeah. I, I I love that.

[00:40:45] Paul: No, it's, it's great. Keeley, you had an opportunity to play, you know, at a high level with, you know, a lot of great, a lot of great players. Are there one or two that come to mind that really impacted you?

And what were some of their great attributes as players that, that really left a mark on you? [00:41:00]

[00:41:00] Keeley: Yeah, I mean, I think . You know, Christie Rampone was probably one of the biggest. That was my first year of pro. She kind of took me under her wing and I played next to her as a Centerback. You know, you talk about someone who has a lot of speed.

First of all, it's like, I, I thought I was pretty fast. And she just has this other gear. You're like, and, and I do have to tell a story about her because I think she was like, I don't know, in her thirties or something. And we were, it was year one, so 2009, I, I don't know how old she is, so don't quote me on that.

But I just remember being like, oh man, my back of my leg hurts. And I was like, well, like maybe you pull the muscle or something. She's like, what do you mean? And I was like, . Yeah. Like, you could have pulled your hamstring. She's like, oh no, I've never done that before. . And I'm like, at 12 years old, I pulled a muscle

And so I was like, oh my gosh. Like, but sh I mean, she's just so fit you know, a leader on the field. And it's like, that's one of the big reasons why we were successful is because she's a leader, a competitor, and obviously [00:42:00] extremely durable as an athlete and, you know, she just helped guide me to kind of understand like, you know, the next level of being a pro and what that looks like.

Cuz it's, you know, I call home and be like, dad, it's a lot cooler saying I'm a pro than being a pro. You know, and that's because it's like you're, you could be so self-absorbed and it's like, just because you sign a contract and get drafted doesn't mean you're on the team. And it's like every day I felt like I was fighting for my life because I wasn't a full national team player, like all the time.

Right. It was just a short stint. So it's like, I didn't feel the security that you feel in college and, and the kind of feel good moments. So I try to tell our players like, Hey, if you're gonna go pro, like. it, you gotta be ready. It's cutthroat. You have a job one day, you may not have one the next day. And so, you know, those were the lessons that she taught me.

So, you know, at the end of the day, I mean, I, you know, you play against Abby Wambach and, you know, for me, I played against her at, at Florida versus, you know, Tennessee versus Florida. And you obviously admire [00:43:00] her from a distance, but when we're, when we're playing, she's a forward and I'm a centerback, it's like, all right, like, I need to beat this chick.

Right? And then, and so, she kind of taught me that a little bit of a gamesmanship attitude of, of, Hey, I'm gonna, I'm a really good player and I'm gonna use the game to be able to beat you. And so that was kind of another layer that I was like, oh, okay, this is, this is new. So, those are probably the top two players I would say.

[00:43:25] Paul: Yeah, those are, those are great ones. Rampone was a consummate pro. She was amazing. And anybody I've ever talked to that played with her, including including my wife, just raves about not only her as a, as a, as a player, but just a person, you know, just really cared about her, her teammates, and one of the hardest working people out there all the time, you know?

So that's just those are, those are great. As we kind of move through, through this through this conversation, there's some questions we ask everybody as we kind of come through here, but, you know, this is a podcast about soccer and leadership, right? So that's kinda what we're talking about here.

Yeah. But what are some of the lessons that you've learned [00:44:00] directly from the game of soccer that you use, just life in general, like maybe even in, in your marriage? What are some soccer lessons that, that leadership lessons that you're using in, in

[00:44:08] Keeley: your. Yeah, I mean, I think, where do you start? You know, I've, I've, when I took over as a head coach I came up with my core values and I wanted to obviously bring them into the program.

And, and the way that we do them is we bring them in and then the players define what each one of those words mean. Obviously, they're gonna mean something to me, but we wanna get our players bought in on, on what do these things mean to you. So, I brought in what's the acrostic, ANCHOR. Part of that is because of my faith and that anchors, that's, that's the anchor for me.

So what it stands for is A is accountability. N is no quit. C is character, H is habits, O is opportunity. And R is responsibility. So the bookends, accountability and responsibility for me, if you don't have those in a program, it's gonna be really hard to be successful. So our players will define that, but.

You know, I [00:45:00] think you know what, what has soccer taught me? Accountability. A hundred percent. You know, within that it's developed my character on so many different levels. You know, the game's 90 minutes and you have the ebbs and the flows of things are going your way, momentum, and then all of a sudden you're not.

And they're not. And so, you know, how do you, how do you persevere through that? You know, I think from a competitive standpoint, you gotta fight every day in training. If you wanna get better. You've gotta fight, if you wanna keep your spot if you wanna earn your spot cuz it can be taken away from you quickly.

You know, I think from a habit standpoint, . One of my least favorite quotes is, if it feels good, do it. Because I think nobody would wake up in the morning because we all just wanna sleep in. So, from that standpoint, it's, if it's not feeling good, you probably should keep pushing through it cuz that's making you better.

So, so the habit standpoint is we're really instilling you know, habits, the game presents. It's from a technical standpoint, right? It's having the habit of keeping your head down when you're shooting. I mean, there's so many things there I can get [00:46:00] into. And then the opportunities part, it's every day is an opportunity and to improve and don't miss.

Don't miss that day because you could get hurt. And then how many injured players are like, oh, I missed the game so much. But when you're in your third month of, of spring and you're not hurt and you're still going, you're like, why do I have to be here? Like, not a good attitude, you know, from an opportunity standpoint.

Um, And then certainly the, I'm not gonna hit all of the core values, but the never quit for me, that is just in marriage. It's you know, you're a team. We, we call ourselves Team Hagen and it's like, you know, it's, it's not an option to quit. And um, I can't remember this great Twitter thing that came out, but it was basically like, if you're fighting with your spouse, it's like, Hey, come on in here.

We're gonna lock the door and we're gonna figure it out cuz we're not giving up. So, those types of things, I think it's, the game has given us so much and that's what we wanna give back to our players and say, Hey, listen, just invest everything you can because when you're done with the game, it, it is taught you so many incredible lessons that hopefully you can then give, [00:47:00] give to others.

[00:47:02] Paul: Yeah, those are great. Some great stuff there, Keely.

[00:47:05] Phil: Yeah, I agree. And you know, and that's why we do this show, right? It's, it's, I. The more this game becomes what it can get for us more than anything is what I think it's getting to for people. Can it get you a scholarship?

Can it get you, you know, whatever the, the prestige and the, to say my kid plays. Comp, soccer or whatever. And it, and it, I think it loses those lessons that, that's why I look back and I love this game so much, is because those lessons, it can teach us about life. It can teach us about, you know, how we can love better, how we can be committed to things even when it's not comfortable.

You know, as we, we've talked about on this show, most of the great things in life happen just on the other side of comfortable, right? Like, that's when it's going to really get going. And so I think that that's where, if we don't take those risks, if we don't take those chances, if we don't push ourselves, we're never gonna see it.

And those, those lessons that we can learn from this game, like that's, that's why, [00:48:00] you know, I was like, Hey, let's just do this thing and see how we can hear from other people like yourselves to say, what can we learn from it? What are we missing that we can learn better? And you know, I I love it. I love, I love learning from, you know, folks like you and, and all the other people we've had on this show about, about these lessons last.

[00:48:17] Keeley: Yeah, I think I'd be remiss to say just the, the last thing is just being on a team, right? Mm-hmm. , I mean, you're gonna go in the workforce afterwards and people wanna hire people that can work together. And so just how are you as a teammate? I think that's the, some of the, my greatest friends are because we were teammates.

And so, learning how to work with people and, and how to be good teammate and, and what that looks like on a regular basis. And you know, I think for this generation it's solving problems through texting and saying, Hey, that's, that's not gonna, that's not gonna fly. And how can we integrate a little bit deeper relationships that are more meaningful of, of having the face-to-face conversation and, and that communication and that eye contact, which we all missed during covid.

[00:49:00] And that's, that's tough. And it's like, how can we get more reps to be able to improve the communication, to improve their relationships?

[00:49:08] Phil: Yeah, no, 100%. Actually on, on that note, I, I, over the weekend did a little two day fast from my phone. I just stuck it on the charger, didn't pick it up all weekend. And even that, those two days to see how much more present I was in every conversation in coaching.

We had a game on Saturday just seeing that it was like, man, I gotta do this more. It, it's so important. I think we are, so we just, we don't realize how much we just look at that little thing and just do something, whether it's just killing time or even for information that might be, we might deem important at that point.

But I looked at my phone last night after two days and I was like, none of this stuff was urgent. I was with my family all weekend, so I didn't, that was what's gonna be the urgent stuff, so I didn't need it, you know, and it was just this reminder of what's really important. [00:50:00] All right, Keeley, all good things must come to an end.

So this, this interview I will finish up with with how we, we finish up these interviews, which is, you know, what have you watched, read, or listened that has most impacted your thinking on how soccer explains life and leadership?

[00:50:16] Keeley: Yeah, I I had to think about this a lot. I'm I'm, I'm not a big reader.

I'm a big listener. Like I listen to things cuz I, it's hard for me to sit down and read a book because I fall asleep really quickly. So, you know, I think just a couple books that you know, I've listened to is the Chop Wood Carry Water. That's been a big one for me. Just in terms of the process.

I dunno if you guys heard that one. Mm-hmm. , how it relates to the game. Once again, it's, it's all about the process and putting the, the extra hours of repetition in that you need in order to, to improve your skill. You know, we tell our players, you know, even at the club level, it's not enough of what you're doing at your training and that doesn't mean more is always better, but if you wanna get to, if you wanna be a better passer, sometimes it's just [00:51:00] hitting the ball against the wall and, and having those quality repetitions.

So, that book was great. And then the other one is Win in the Dark which is, I think they're actually the same authors and it's once again so, so much of me being successful was not necessarily my talent, but is what was I doing behind the scenes when no one else was working? Right? If it was snowing, I was going for a two mile run because I knew it was gonna make me tougher and I knew I needed to, to work on my endurance, or I was, you know, taking time to hit a ball against a rebounder cause I needed to hit a better, longer ball.

And so it's those things that my, my teammates may not have known or you know, nobody knew, but I had to put those reps in. And so it's, it's that, that's, those are probably the two top two right now for me.

[00:51:42] Phil: You're not alone in those recommendations. The last, the last person to recommend those two books was Cori Close, the, the women's basketball coach at UCLA.

Another, okay. Amazing Woman of Faith. And I know she uses those books regularly as well. She's, that's a, that's a great interview. I know you'd enjoy that as well. But but yeah, [00:52:00] no, those are, those are great books. And you know, I I I love asking those questions because, you know, just selfishly, I, you know, if someone in, if someone recommends that book, if two people, three people on this show recommend those books, folks, you gotta read 'em.

It's like required reading. Now, if you listen to this show, you gotta go out and read those books and, and for, for no other reason than the people that we're listening to. It's, it's impacted them and made them better leaders. So I, I think that that's why we're doing this. If you're listening to the show, chances are you are a learner and you are a great leader.

So, so, continue learning on that. Well, thank you so much Keeley, just for, for who you are, for the, I know the encouragement you are to me. And Paul, I assume I'm gonna speak for him because I, I've talked with him about you and just that you are impacting lives in, in great ways. And so I just want you to, to encourage you to keep running the race and thank you for being a part of this conversation.

[00:52:55] Keeley: Yeah. Thanks you guys. And Paul, I need one of those hats. And Phil, you should wear that shirt all the [00:53:00] time. and Paul, if you gimme a hat, I will give you a shirt. Ooh,

[00:53:03] Paul: wow. That I like trades tradesies. Yeah.

[00:53:06] Phil: That's good. Bartering. That's good.

[00:53:07] Keeley: Bartering you size. Are you Double XL? Paul, what are you?

[00:53:10] Phil: What? Wait, wait a minute.


[00:53:12] Paul: are you sure? Did you ever coach against me? Hey, did you, you already tires? Paul, are you confusing me with Chuck? Are you confusing me with Chuck again? Oh,

[00:53:19] Phil: okay.

[00:53:20] Keeley: Now I just didn't wanna say extra small. Just try to make, it's

[00:53:23] Phil: okay, man.

[00:53:23] Paul: I'm, I'm good with extra small. I love it. I can still, I can still fit in all of those, my

[00:53:27] Phil: belly.

He can go to the gym, bigger in retirement. He can go to the gym with that extra small and he could, you

[00:53:32] Keeley: know, just kinda, yeah, I can still see your chins, so You're doing great. Yeah, we're doing

[00:53:35] Phil: Keep it up. Yeah, he's good. He's, you know, he is got, he's got four little boys, you know. No, not little anymore, but four boys running him around.

So I think he'll be in good shape for a while. Anyway,

[00:53:44] Paul: we all, we all know it's my wife that keeps me in check. Wow. There's a

[00:53:47] Keeley: good question. It's, it's not, yeah, my husband might say the same thing too, so, but hey, I just wanna say I really appreciate what you guys are doing. I think it's awesome just to, you know, bring awareness and at the end of the day, like we're all trying to learn and get better and I, I really [00:54:00] appreciate what you guys are doing and.

It's, it's very helpful for people like me as well. So thank

[00:54:04] Phil: you. Yeah. Well, thank you, Keeley. Thank you folks for, for being a part of this. You know, we, we do it, we do it for you. And you know, we, we selfishly like doing it for ourselves too, but, but if you weren't out there listening and learning from this, you know, we wouldn't, we wouldn't be doing what we're doing.

So thank you for, for investing in your life to be able to listen to this, investing in your people and you know, just being a better leader for everyone in your life. And so, as you know, we have great resources that you can always access. You can go to warriorwaysoccer.com, learn about what Paul and Marci are doing with Warrior Way.

That great hat is one thing. Well, not the one he has on, cuz that is a limited edition. That is only, I only have it. I think I'm the only other one other than Marcy and Paul that have that. So, and, but you can get another great hat. You can, you might be able to barter too. I don't know. It sounds like bartering is, is a, is a way you can get one of those hats.

But you, we also have coaching the bigger game, coachingthebiggergame.com. You can go there to [00:55:00] learn about how you can invest in your leadership. And if you're interested in that, you can check that out. Um, But as always, we hope that you're taking what you're learning from this show, and you're using it to be a better parent, a better spouse, a better leader, a better coach, better in all that you do.

And you continually remind yourself that soccer does explain life and leadership. Thanks a lot. Have a great couple weeks.