In Episode 104, Paul and Phil discuss an important change for HSEL, which will go into effect after this episode), highlights from the first half of Season 7, and, of course, several important lessons from the beautiful game that will help us flourish...
In Episode 104, Paul and Phil discuss an important change for HSEL, which will go into effect after this episode), highlights from the first half of Season 7, and, of course, several important lessons from the beautiful game that will help us flourish on and off the field.
Resources and Links from this Episode
Phil: Welcome back to How Soccer Explains Leadership. Thanks again for being a part of the conversation. I'm Phil Darke, you're a host, and we are here at another halftime show. I got my brother Paul Jobson here and we're ready to talk about really this first half in what we were able to talk about. And I say we, because it was a half full of interviews where both of us were able to be able to be on those those interviews, those conversations.
How you doing today and what did it feel like to be part of the entire half?
[00:00:32] Paul: It was great, man. I'm, I'm doing well. Things are going great out here in Waco, Texas, and yeah, man, it was fun. I got to be part of the entire half of the season and it's nice to have the time to be able to, to do this a little bit more with you.
I've really enjoyed it, especially this, you know, these last four episodes were really fun and, and like I've said before, usually I'm on the other side listening to each episode and then talking with you at the halftime and the end of season. So it's, it's cool to be part of the episodes themselves this time.
So [00:01:00] things are, things are good here. I'm looking forward to our discussion today. And how are things out in, in the Great Land of California, my
[00:01:06] Phil: friend? Well, you know, it's, it's a continual party out here, right? I mean, I think, you know, it's just crazy. And, and if you can't hear, if you listen regularly, you know, my voice is very different than.
I got a little bug, you know? And nowadays in this new world we live in, you can't just get a bug and go get some antibiotics or something like we used to do. I tried and I went and said, Hey, can I get a, a test for strep throat? And they said, Well, you can't get that unless you get a covid test first. So, you know, you go through this testing regiment that you know, we've unfortunately gotten used to over the last couple years.
Fortunately, all of that is clean and I just have a run of the mill cold or mild flu or something. But whatever it is, it's not fun. I don't like it. I don't care being sick, just. But the cool thing is I can still do this with you and I don't have to, I'm not gonna get you sick because I don't think these germs can travel through the microphones over there to Waco.
So no, I don't,
[00:01:58] Paul: I don't think we have that. We don't have that [00:02:00] technology yet where you can get me sick through a microphone
[00:02:02] Phil: yet. Yeah. So, Or the listeners, So listeners, I think you're safe too. Ah, safe. Yes. Yes. And you have no idea when we recorded this, and I'm not gonna tell you. So , if you saw me today or see me today, then you don't even know.
You don't. They know that's the other, that's the other thing here. I think you will. It's a very sanitary
[00:02:15] Paul: podcast. Yeah, the sanitary podcast,
[00:02:18] Phil: we try to keep it clean. Ah, that that, There we go. There we go. Yeah. So, the other thing I wanna say up front is we are going to make a shift. We, because we want to give you more time to process these great conversations we have, we want to give a little more opportunity to get stuff out there to new listeners and new people that are just getting introduced to the podcast we're gonna go to every other week.
So if you come on. After this episode and you're like, Where is that next episode? It's gonna be coming in two weeks from today, so we'll still be releasing on Thursdays, but we're gonna do it every other week. And so that's just something that we decided for, for a lot of different reasons. But the main one is it's just really good content and we don't wanna shortcut it.
We don't want people who can [00:03:00] rush and get behind and go, Well, I'm just not gonna listen to those interviews. We wanna give you more time to be able to do. And like I said, be able to get other people to be, be listening cuz I, I have no doubt if it's helping you, and I've said this before, if it's helping you, it's gonna be helping others.
So be sharing it with others. That's the other thing too, I wanna ask you and invite you to share this with other people. You can do that in a few different ways. One is just, just being able to just. Talk about it with people and just say, Hey, at this podcast, and share a specific episode that usually works really well.
Say, Hey, I think this episode will really help you. The other thing is you can subscribe to the podcast that will remind you to, to listen each time and, and then be able to share um, rate and review it too. So, I mean, the really, the, the, the number one, if there's like one thing we want you to do, it's just share it.
Friends and family and other people that you know, it will help because that is the best way. It always will be the best way, word of mouth to get it out to other people. So that's just something we wanted to, to share just a little housekeeping upfront. And just wanna, again, thank you for being a part of this.
We are now over a [00:04:00] hundred episodes. When this releases, it will be, Basically Mark the two year mark of when we started this podcast. Wow. Which is just so cool, so crazy. So much good content from episode one all the way up to today. Episode two as we say, is probably the, I mean, that might be the pinnacle.
It's probably all downhill since that episode two interview. We were able to do with some, some coach of Baylor in, in Waco who ended up going into early retirement after that, cuz he couldn't really figure out a way to. Further up than that. So he's just like, I'm just gonna, I just gotta retire. So isn't that kinda what happened?
Isn't that what you remember? Uh,
[00:04:35] Paul: The way I remember is that this podcast has gone nowhere but up since that episode. And how. How I suckered you into letting me do this? I don't know. But this has been fun and yeah, that early retirement has allowed me to be on more of these podcasts with you, so, that's definitely a benefit to not only being with my family more, but being with you more Phil Sure is, is been great.
I mean, that's part of the reason I stepped away was to do this. I,
[00:04:58] Phil: I have no doubt. , no doubt, [00:05:00] that was, that was a huge part of the, It was like, that was like number one on the pro for that pro and con spreadsheet that you put together for the, whether you're gonna
[00:05:08] Paul: do it. So, yes, you know, my personality type.
So yes, that's, that's it. Pro pros and cons, spreadsheet to, to what was next. This was definitely one of the top ones of the pros to stepping away from college soccer, coaching for sure. Yeah.
[00:05:21] Phil: So now we're gonna get into the real, like actual real stuff. I mean, this could be fun, the meat banter all day long.
But I wanna get into these episodes that we had because, you know, These are not only friends and people that, you know, I respect a ton. But you know, some are new friends, some are old friends, some are friends that I'm working with regularly. Other people are family that, you know, that I, I say kind of family my wife's kind of family.
But they become a really, really good friends. You know, Dave is a good friend of yours. But, but we talked about some different Sports ministry that's going on. We talked about some different coaches there. I mean, these are, these are legendary [00:06:00] coaches and I don't use that word lightly. But coaching for a same program for over 50 years.
Just crazy. To be able to be part of state programs and national team programs. So, so Horst Richardson, with the over 50 years of coaching, same, same team. I mean, how many people can. I, I don't,
[00:06:16] Paul: I definitely can't.
[00:06:17] Phil: Yeah, you definitely can't. 15, 15. I mean, if you say it really fast, 15 people may think it's 50, but it wasn't 50.
We haven't even been alive 50 years. I mean, that's, that's crazy when you think about that. Like our entire life full of coaching and then some And Dave Simeone coaching from top to bottom. You know, even Dan Williams has coached a lot, and, and Jorge is, is young. I mean, he's just a kid. Not really.
Yeah. But just comparatively. But these guys have done really cool things. So what'd you think, just generally, what stood out to you just in this half? What were some of those themes that wove through all those different different episodes?
[00:06:50] Paul: Yeah. Well, first of all, to kind of touch on what you were talking about, the experience.
From, from these four people that we had over this last half of the season is incredible. You know, [00:07:00] from, you said, like you said, from the the youth system up to, to national team level, professional level coaching at every level is experienced that you're gonna hear from. Or that you did hear from in these last four episodes.
And you just get a lot from it. Everything from the nonprofit world to the, the standard club scene to the college scene. And really, I mean, when you listen to the Horst in his his episode, the fact that his career spanned 50 years there's a lot of information in there because I know how much the college game changed in 15 years.
Yes. But how much the game has changed in 50 years that he experienced. Is incredible. But what you'll notice, and one of the things that stood out to me the most is when we talk to horse, she's not talking a lot about the Xs and Os and, and how much the game itself has changed, even though there's a specific question there to kind of bring that out a little bit.
But it's about the relationships, you know, And you get that from, from, from Dave and you hear that from Dan. And of course, you know, you also hear that from Jorge, just the relationships that we build through coaching. And if, if how soccer [00:08:00] explains leadership can be summarized, maybe the, the best might be these four.
Episodes together in that it's not about Xs and Os, it's about these relationships. It's how our personalities interweave together to make ourselves better as a community uh, whether it's a soccer community specifically, or a community as a whole that, that we live and that we're part of. So that's kind of what stood out to me.
Really some awesome, awesome conversations that we got to.
[00:08:28] Phil: Yeah. You know, and I, I totally agree with that and I, I just, as you were talking there, I mean some of those high, like I just look at horse and I just was just laughing with, with that, that conversation with Horst, if you haven't listened to it, folks, you're just listening to this.
You haven't gone back, you haven't listened to that episode yet. Go back and listen to that For sure. Like that, that was one of my favorite conversations and I laughed. I got home and I talked to, to Becca and I was like, Hey, you know, I don't know that he answered our questions. Really, You know, a lot of the times.
What he shared with us was so cool. I mean like [00:09:00] talking about, I mean he did answer the questions. I'm joking, but, But some of 'em, I was like, I think it went off a little bit, but that was, It was so cool cuz what was supposed to be said was said and that was awesome. And again, it was story after story after story and just him going back and he'd have these little aside that were so, I mean they were just funny, but they were also quick.
Oh yeah, this guy, he had to use life magazines as shin guards cuz we didn't have, he didn't have, you know, the right equipment. I mean, going And there's that book that we talk about in that too, has other story after story. They're just borrowing equipment. Their first games were like just t-shirts.
They're borrowing uniforms from the hockey team or other things like they're just, as you said, the game is cheap. Like it was just this rag. What are we even doing type thing as he, he said, you know, driving all over the place, the guy in the play going to the games, and it was just story after story. And what was so cool about it is he was telling it like it happened last week.
Yeah, these were happening 50 years ago. . Yeah. And so vivid [00:10:00] just these pictures, and you could tell, I mean, he was plucking 'em out, like, yeah. Boom, boom, boom. And I, and I know that that isn't, he didn't prep that for that for the episode because I've sat with him in his house talking story after story.
There's one thing he is, it's a storyteller. Um, So that was just, that was just fun. I mean, I don't know if you agreed with that too,
[00:10:18] Paul: but, Oh, yeah. I mean, as, as a coach and as a, you know, as a parent, you know, I mean, It just kind of takes you back to, you remember, you know, you sit down with your grandparents and, and everything, every question has just a story to it, you know?
And whether you're, you feel like your question has been answered or not, it has been answered through the story. Yes. If you're paying attention. Yes. But when you have that many life experiences to be able to, to relate to somebody through story it's amazing. And I, and we probably could do like, It probably could be weekly, but we probably could do a, a monthly story time with, with horse research Horst Richardson, you know, and, and fill up, you know, one episode a month for a couple of years and never hear them all.
Yeah. And, and all of them be extremely interesting. And I think the longer. [00:11:00] Obviously you're in the game the more stories you're gonna have. But you know, he just kinda reels you in and you're just kind of hooked. And I think that episode probably went a little bit longer than most and probably could have gone a lot longer.
And, and would've been, you know, you would listen to every, every minute of it.
[00:11:14] Phil: Yeah, definitely, definitely. So that, I mean, that was horse. We're kind of starting at the end, going back. But you know, I I also, some of the things with, with Dave that were just, it was just this, again, like I think. When we talk with these men and women throughout the podcast, these happened to be four men in this episode.
I agree with, I mean, this season, I agree with you that, you know, it kind of brings together a lot of the different things that we do talk about on purpose of this, of this podcast. But was hearing through Dave just these again stories, but he was weaving them in with the, you know, What are the, what are the really good things about the game?
And I loved how he was talking about that, just bringing light to the fact. We now can [00:12:00]watch not just the, the highest level of sport, which is, which is kind of where it was 10, 15 years ago. You could watch Serie A, you could watch the Premier League, you could watch MLS. Sometimes on tv you could watch, you know, Bundesliga, whatever.
But now he's like, you can watch Bundesliga 2, You can watch USL, you can watch the, you know, the first division, the Championship in the English League and that that bring, and you can watch the women's NCAA teams plan. You can watch the men's ncaa so I can go show my daughter. Yeah, you can go watch. A Manchester United match on a, a primarily, you know, thing with my kids, I can sit down on a Saturday morning and do that, but that's so, like, that's not even close to where they're at.
But I can go to my daughter who's, you know, a freshman in high school and show her an NCAA woman's game and she can watch and go, Oh, like, that's, that's [00:13:00] reachable. Like, I can, I could totally see myself playing. You know? Yeah. A lot more work, a lot more. And, but it's just this, it's, I love that. And it also gives us the ability to watch really, really like that elite level playing, but to see the different levels of that and to see how close they are first, but also how How we can get there and how we could actually, it gives you that vision.
It gives you a picture a little bit clearer than we'd otherwise have. So that was one of the things that I love that he talked about and brought to light as far as one of the really good things that are going on in our, in our system today. He also talked about some of the negatives too, but what, what really stuck out with that interview with Dave that you that you can think of?
You know, right now?
[00:13:41] Paul: Yeah, well, you know, with Dave, you know, he, he brings such a, a wide spectrum of, of, of information. You know, the guy has been, you know, in the, in the, in the club scene, he's been the, in the youth national scene. He's been the senior national team you know, at some level. So he, he's worked with every level of player [00:14:00] is basically what I'm, what I'm getting at, and he's seen it.
back in the days when ODP was the, the pathway to the national team. He was a big part of that through North and South Texas. And so he's seen even the evolution of the youth development system and how we select players from the youth system to the, to the pathway to the full national team and his perspective on that.
Was really interesting. And yeah, I really enjoyed his perspective on the media piece of it too, and, and how the access to to games now is, is, is so much greater than it used to be, obviously. And then I know when I was a kid, I remember. You know, the first time I got to watch the World Cup was my best, actually it was my, my best friend grant was Clint Mathis.
Low and behold, we were watching the World Cup together. He had a satellite dish. And if you're young and you're listening Dish, you're thinking, Oh, little satellite dish on the top of your house. No, it was in the backyard and it was big as somebody's carport you know, and you had to blow the leaves out of it once a year to make sure it was still working.
Mm-hmm. . So that's how we watched soccer. But now, like you said, you can, I can get it on my phone. Any league I [00:15:00] can watch. Yeah. You. The second division in France, if I want to, I can watch women's soccer. I can watch every level of, of college soccer now, because even the, the smaller schools are, are streaming, whether it's through Facebook Live or you know, whatever.
So, the great thing of being a youth player, There are no excuses to, to, to not be able to watch the game now. And so Dave being a, I think I said it in the podcast, an educator of educators really great to hear his perspectives and, and also kind of back to what we talked about with Ho He, you know, when he talks about the things that he loves about the game, again, he wasn't talking about the Xs and Os and the, you know, the systems of play and all the things that, you know, I know he's having.
To teach. It was about relationships. I mean, I'd love to go back through and do, if I had time to do a word count. A name count, Yeah. How many names Dave Semi own throughout. And he wasn't name dropping. No, he's just talking through the hey and And like a horse. He remembers him like it was yesterday. Yes.
And I think you said it well, I think in [00:16:00] both podcasts it's a true testament to someone who really is good at being a coach, is that they remember names cuz it's about relationships. And, and really you can tell how. Bought in Dave was to the process of developing these young people. And if that's somebody who's gonna be, you know, coaching coaches, I think that's something that everybody needs to take away from, from, from that episode.
[00:16:22] Phil: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And I, and I've seen you do, I mean, I've, I've seen you and, and other coaches that I, that I respect to be able to like on, on Instagram or whatever, like you're, I just got to go to this wedding or I just was able to see so and so, and I just ran into this person and, and it's just like, Like yesterday, it was probably 10 years ago.
You coached them and you're still involved with them and their families and, and you hear about that. I've talked to coaches say, What's the, what's the gauge of whether you're a really, really good coach? Like, well, how many weddings are you getting invited to? How many babies, like announcements are you receiving?
How many thing like that. And I'm not saying like, if you don't get those, you're a terrible coach. No, but like, that's what is important. That's what [00:17:00] matters. Like in the, in the big picture and you, you hear that in there. They didn't necessarily say that in those interviews, but that was what, you know, you kind of read between the lines and they're very likely, deeply involved.
And even hearing, when we say to Dave, What was your favorite part about coaching? And he talks about, well, Following them through the ranks and being able to coach them here and coach them and seeing them develop and being able to develop relationships with them. And so that was, that was super, super cool.
I really, really appreciated that. The other thing I really, you know, you know, you know me and you know I'm gonna appreciate this when he talks about. The, the training ground, the new United Soccer Coach's online platform. Mm-hmm. and how they're bringing in the, the Dan Abrahams, the Donna Fishters, the, the McVeigh, Paul McVeigh, and the, the different people there.
By the way, I went through and edited that and the word count of the names it was a lot. I was, Cause the, the transcription service doesn't new names very well. So I went through and, you know, oh, some of them I had to look up spelling, you know, show us Hyman didn't make it easy on us. Right. So, yeah.
So, but.[00:18:00] But anyway, those are the things that coaches, if you're listening to these parents, if you're looking for coaches that you want your kids to play for players, as you're playing through the ranks like and you see coaches that maybe spending more time getting to know you, don't get annoyed with that.
That's actually something that makes them an incredible coach that you're gonna end up appreciating more than, you know, down the road. And so coaches, if you're not doing that, pay attention to it. Study it. Hey.
[00:18:32] Paul: Yeah. A side, a side note on that recently this is a great, I think, a great story that kind of goes along with that.
And we don't talk, we don't talk in, I mean, we talk about relationships with coaches. I think a great story that goes along with this. Recently I was working with a player uh, is considering making a change in, in college decisions, or not even a change, but you. Part of her selection process is based on the relationship that she has [00:19:00] built or not built with certain coaches.
You know, there's certain coaches that, you know, we talk about transactional coaches and relational coaches, and a school that she was very, very high on at the very beginning of this process is dropping down the ranks of her interest because you know, the relationship with the coaches hasn't grown the way that she, she feels you.
Feels good about, and yeah, it's interesting because through that recruiting process, you know, they're gonna love you, love you, love you at the beginning, and then you know, who maintains that the relational coaches will maintain that because that's who they are. And I thought it was a very wise thing for this young kid to say, Hey, you know, I'm kind of reconsidering maybe how I'm ranking my school because the relational piece of this is gonna be really important for me.
And she may end up at a lower, a lower level type of school. Because that's gonna be more important to her than going to a high level school with, you know, zero relationship with, with coaches. So, I just some advice to, to some, to coaches that are at the college ranks. Hey, through the recruiting process, don't forget, this is not a transactional thing.
This is a [00:20:00] relational thing. Yep. If you want longevity for your
[00:20:02] Phil: program, Absolutely. Absolutely. So that's the first two, or the last two, I guess the first two we covered. So then we got Dan and Jorge, and it turns out I just had lunch with Dan and Jorge iat, Georgia, which is nearby where they both live.
I didn't even realize that, That's what's funny is I gotta introduce to those guys through different people didn't even know they knew each other. It turns out they actually coach in the same club at some, at some, you know, Full time, I don't think, But they both coached, you know, for GSA at some level and are with them and they live in the same little community there.
And so I say little community, the, the east side of of Atlanta, it's not really little community. They're not in the same, it's not city. They're not in the same city starts all
[00:20:48] Paul: of our, my friends in Decatur I lived
[00:20:50] Phil: in, called the Little City. I'm, I'm saying in the relation to. Globe. Gotcha. And the United States of America.
It's a little area of our [00:21:00] country. It is. I know Atlanta very, I just drove from Johnson Ferry Baptist down to Decatur. It's not a little city. Okay. It took me 45 minutes to an hour because the GPS didn't help me out much. But anyway, that's a whole different conversation. So, but the point is, They're really close to each other and I gotta introduced them to totally different people.
They're doing some really, really cool things and it was, what was great is I got to sit down with them. If you know Decatur, if you are in Atlanta, Atlanta pees out there. We were at the Brick Store Pub out there in Decatur, Georgia, right there on the square. Cool little, little pub. I used to actually wear a.
Softball jersey on the men's team, brick store, pub softball jersey with the button down. It was really cool. It was, it was really, actually, it was slick. Should be a picture of that in the show notes is what? Yeah, there should be. If I had one, I, My wife, I think donated that jersey a while back.
Unfortunately, it was one of my favorites, but, That again, is just, these are just side note. These are just extra bonus coverage folks like you, you never know what you're gonna get on this show, [00:22:00] but we were able to sit there and just talk about different ways that they can work together and that's one of these great things.
Not that they would never have done that otherwise, but because, you know, we both, you know, they both were on the show. They both were able to hear more about what each other does as well as be able to. You know, get together and say, Okay, how can we do things together? That's what I hope will happen.
More and more I've seen that happen on this podcast. I've seen that happen on the Think Orphan podcast that I do, is people hear about things, reach out to me, I can connect them. In their case, they obviously already knew each other, but it's like, Oh man, I didn't realize. The extent of your, what you're doing.
I didn't really realize the extent of your ministry, I didn't realize the extent of your relationships. And we're actually very like-minded. How can we do more together? And so that is, was just, I mean, that just warm my heart. It was like one of these really, really cool things. And so to hear what Jorge and Dan are both doing, and we can talk about 'em separate or together, what were the things of those two interviews that really just, you know, grabbed you and said, you know, I, I wanna, [00:23:00] I wanna hang out with these guys.
[00:23:02] Paul: Well, first of all, I'm not surprised that that totally lights you up cuz you are the ultimate connector of connectors. So I, I can see how that totally lights you up. I was just pumped that we had, you know, two people from, you know, the great city of Atlanta at a great state of Georgia on there this time too.
That's a, a great, great homeland for me as well. But I think it's another testament to really how small the soccer world is. You know, but I think with, you know, with Dan, what I, what I really appreciate about Dan and just kind of the things, he gives us a perspective of, you know, not only is he, is he coaching at the youth level, you know, an academy level training up, you know, young players within the club and within the own, his own, you know, next level academy that he has.
But also as a parent, there's a parent perspective there that we get into With Dan also that I think is, is very valuable cuz sometimes we don't through the podcast we get a lot of coaching perspectives and there's a little bit of parent perspective, but I think he does a really good job of, of giving us that parent coach [00:24:00] perspective.
Also of kind of drawing those lines of being a parent and a coach. That I think can be very helpful for, for. Some of our, our parents who, who aren't coaches. Yeah. You know, cause as you've gotta learn how to play those different roles. But you know, that was something for, from, from Dan's. It kind of, there's a lot in there in, in his and I think we asked him some pretty hard questions actually.
You. I thought he did a great job of giving some perspective on that. Maybe a lot of people don't know Dan and maybe haven't heard of Dan. That's one thing I love about our podcast too, is bring on people that maybe people have never heard of. Yeah. But his perspectives are extremely valuable and ex extremely wise.
For a lot of our, our coaches and, and parents of players that need to, they need to
[00:24:39] Phil: listen. That was the thing about Dan too is, you know, I've gotten to know him pretty well over the last year and a half. Been doing some different work with him and the Global Sports movement, North American sports movement.
And he's not just a dude who comes on to podcast and says really cool, you know, wise things. He's, he's living it out. He's a, he's a [00:25:00] great dad, he's a great coach. He's, he's thinking about these issues. He's, you know, just really saying, how can I Help others flourish, right? I mean, how can I bring Shalom to communities, right?
These things we talk about in the different, you know, ministries we're involved with. Like, what does that look like to really be able to help people? Not how can I build my kingdom? How can I build my business? How can I get wealthier? How can I, you know, Get a, a, a coaching, you know, next level soccer academy and become a millionaire because I'm gonna have the next great, next thing you know, he called me up, he's like, Hey, how can we put together this thing?
And I'm not gonna say exactly what it is. I don't know if it'll ever end up out there. And I don't want, another thing that I talk about that I, that, you know, doesn't happen , but we talk about this thing. He says, What, what if we did this, this, this, and this? And I really think it will help, you know, young players be able to understand, you know, whatever.
It was very, you know, a lot deeper. And it just that he's continually thinking about. You know, his daughter is, is in college. She's playing already. So it's not like this vested interest. Oftentimes you see us doing [00:26:00] things and we're like, Yeah, we're doing it for all these other people, but really, you know, we're doing it so our kids can get that next leg up.
And Dan is a guy who I just love sitting here. And again, his story and it's a lot. Subtler with Dan, I think as far as the storytelling and the different things, but it's, it's something that he's just got a lot of experience, expertise that he can bring in. And as you said and he even said it, he's like, How did I get in the hundredth episode?
Like, who am I? And I. I look at it and go, A lot of the people, I mean, the difference between someone that you've heard of and someone that you haven't heard of in these, as far as these different interviews, these different things we're talking about, is simply that they had some break or they had something, or they chose to go a certain route that took them to a particular national team or a particular whatever team they were, happened to be a player who played at the next level.
But what I've found is, is oftentimes not always, and I'm not saying that people that have the big name don't have the wisdom. These people that we've never heard of, man, they're bringing stuff that if you're not [00:27:00] listening to it, cuz you don't know the names, start doing it. Go back to these people you haven't heard of because they're doing things, they're thinking about things.
Oftentimes it's like those players who maybe don't have the natural athletic ability, they have to work way harder on the. Fundamentals and on the things that you know they, so that they can actually play at that higher level. They have to work on the juggling more. They have to work on the technical ability war.
They have to work on the tactical. They have to work, study the game more because they don't have that natural athleticism sometimes when you don't have that name to give you that platform. Well, not sometimes. Definitely. You have to really. Dig deep into the content to make sure that it is dialed in.
Make sure that it is gonna help people, and you are really going to make sure that you're gonna to give that best, most excellent thing and, and don't hear what I'm not saying. I'm not saying that people who have a name don't do that. I'm just saying that those other people, if they don't do it, They'll never be even hurt.
You'll never, you'll never even get 'em anywhere. So, to to say, you know, we don't just pick people cuz we are desperate for content. [00:28:00] We have plenty of people we could interview. These are very, you know, we curate this content because we say, Hey, these people have something to offer. I want to, I want to be able to talk with these people.
Because I know they're gonna help you guys out there who we're talking with about this stuff. So anyway, I just wanted to say that to help you guys know that Yeah. You know, this is, this is something that's very, very intentionally curated to make sure that we're given content that is, that is gonna help you, gonna help your players, gonna help your, your business, gonna help your family, gonna help your marriage, gonna help, whatever.
Because that, that's why we do what we.
[00:28:35] Paul: No, I love that. And I think even just taking that, carrying that into, you know, the interview with Jorge, you know, I think that, you know, the stuff that he's doing, I think the thing that stood out most for me in, in his interview is that, that, I think I said this earlier with somebody else, but.
The fact that he's doing so many different levels of, of soccer, you know, he's working [00:29:00] with, you know, underprivileged kids, you know, in, in these, these, these areas of Atlanta where they need, they need mentorship and he's using the game to teach that. And, and, and using, you know, Christ's love to do that too, obviously through that.
But he is also the chaplain for Atlanta. These guys that are at, you know, developing their professional careers that have a livelihood in soccer and his ministry there with those guys. And I, I think throughout his, his interview, just listening to, you know, his story of one, how he came to faith and how sport influenced that decision and how he's using that to not only not only influence young kids but also how he.
Influencing what I'll call older kids. You know, I guess now that I'm older, the, you know, the 20 somethings are older kids to me now. But I love that. I love how he is able to take what he's doing and really relate that to, to different ages and stages of people and really just be able to pour in and, and he's coaching, I mean, he's coaching.
What I would call [00:30:00] underprivileged kids. He's coaching at a, at a club. He's coaching at a college. He's the chaplain at a pro team. Again, somebody who's doing it at, at every level. Pouring in and just giving and giving and giving so that others can, can get things from him and a lot of knowledge and wisdom that he that he shared with
[00:30:15] Phil: us.
Yeah. Yeah. And it just, his. His story and how he got to the US coming from the, you know, Colomb, Colombia. I will never Colombia, Colombia ever again. You know, I said, How, you know? Do you have any questions? This, this was before we got on the, the, the, this is like the little behind the scenes look at the How Soccer Explains Leadership podcast.
I gave I gave all the guests little, little outline. It's not, it's not a script by any, by any stretch. It's a little outline of what we're gonna talk about. And I said, Do you have any questions about it? He. No, no questions. You just misspelled Colombia. It's not Columbia, South Carolina, Phil. And I was like, Oh thanks.
Okay. Any, any questions that aren't just ridiculing me. But but it's, it's true. I, I think that part of that story, because that's [00:31:00] what the thing is, is that's what's so cool about how God works in a lot of these situations is when. He comes to the US from Colombia and he ends up working with these kids who are from the, you know, they're, they're not, you know, there's, they're from, as you said, whether they're underprivileged, whether they're just not quite at the, you know, I don't know what, what word I'm even looking for.
They're, they're just not the ones who are going to get that next step easily. Right. Whatever the opportunity isn't there as easily. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he gets that. . Mm-hmm. , like I, I, coming from South Orange County, California, when I had, you know, my parents, you know, growing up there, born here, citizen, just kind of go through the suburby of suburbia, being on the mis soccer club, playing with great players, all this other stuff, like if I, when I go work there, it's a, it's a cross-cultural conversation for Jorge.
It's, it's who he is. He gets it. And he's such a humble [00:32:00] man. I mean, just sitting down with him, talking with him, sitting down with him at lunch and just, he's soaking it in. He's learning. He's continually being, you know, and that's, that for me is such a, such a huge lesson for me that he didn't have to speak a word when we were at lunch.
I could tell he had a learning humble posture. He wasn't just offering all of his, you know, this is what I have, this is what I'm doing. This, it was, when asked he, she shared, but for the most part he was just listening cuz he knew that, you know, Dan was there and Dan has all a ton of wisdom and just experience that, that he doesn't, He's like, I wanna learn and.
And in that he's able to do these different things that he does. He knows he has things to share, and he's able to do that when he's the chaplain for the United, as you said, they are kids now. I mean, heck, they're, they're, Well, I know they're half my age on average, probably, which is just crazy. I gotta compliment the other day.
A guy goes, Yeah, I don't see you at 48. And I was like, Well that's, that seems like a compliment as long as you don't see me at 58. So, you know, and I thought that that was something you know, but the [00:33:00] fact is, you know, we are what we are. , these are kids. But, but for him to be able to do that is also really, really cool.
Cause a lot of the guys on the United are Spanish speaking. A lot of the guys are, are, you know, from different cultures that he can say Yeah, I get that. I get that. I understand that, you know, So, so that was something that I, I really appreciated Jorge, I appreciate the Upper 90 program that he's doing that again, it's not something that he started because he wanted to quote unquote, change the world.
It was something that he started because he realized there was a need in the community that he was in, that he, with his unique background, his unique. You know, really just his story could come into that in Philadelphia. Somebody else gave him some, you know, here's what you could start with. And he said, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do something to, to really just try to encourage and love these kids in this community [00:34:00] and see where that can go.
And then obviously moves to Atlanta, is able to do a similar thing there. And now it's like, it's just growing and growing, getting the opportunity to be the chaplain for the United. And I think that's an encouragement for people too, is never despise small beginnings too. Right? Like we, we all wanna be the big.
And it may be that you have a small beginning and you stay small and you impact this little community in incredible ways. And it may be that you start small and it grows up to be this big thing and you're all of a sudden a world vision organization. Very unlikely that that will happen for anybody. But, but these small things have massive impact when you consider the multiplicative effect of lives transformed.
It's, it's something that I, I see that with Jor. I just, I just see that, that he has these small groups of kids that these lives will be transformed and they then will be able to transform more and more lives because they have stories that are similar to his. [00:35:00]
[00:35:00] Paul: Yeah, it's, I don't wanna say, I don't wanna use the word envious, but, and I, and I think I'm probably gonna oversimplify and he may listen to us and go, Yeah, it's, it wasn't that simple.
But now that he's kind of where he is, The fact that, you know, God takes people and uses them, uses their experiences to help influence others. The fact that he had the the humble posture to be able to say, Hey, use me how you want to use me. Yeah. And I'm probably again oversimplifying and if he's in it, he's probably like, Yeah, that wasn't that easy.
You know, maybe still isn't that easy, but you can look at it from here and go, Man, it's so cool how you know God's able to use him. I think you used it in the header is is quote about don't be a dead fish. Yeah. You know, I love that. Like if you're a dead fish, you're just gonna be, you're just gonna go with the flow and where he is and what he's doing.
He definitely was not a dead fish. He definitely is not just going with the flow. He's, he's looking for you know, opportunities that God's putting ahead of him. So that he can be what it is that God wants him to be. So he can be what he needs to be for, for those young [00:36:00] kids in that environment and for the older kids in the other environment.
And for his own, you know, own family, what he needs to be. Talks a little bit about that too, like, you know, when we get to the point of, you know, what are the lessons you've learned from the game to that, that you, you know, have within your family? It gives some great. What I would call young insight into, into, into parenting as well.
And but hey, I wanted to ask you a side question. I'm thinking about, you know, you and, and Dan and, and Jorge on a, at a, at a conversation at a, at a, at a restaurant. How, how long were you guys there together? How long was that conversation?
[00:36:31] Phil: We there a couple
[00:36:31] Paul: hours. I figured that was probably a good long Yeah, good long conversation with you guys.
I bet that was awesome. Yeah,
[00:36:38] Phil: it was. It was so cool. I think it was, it was. I got there a little late, unfortunately. But yeah, it was a couple hours and we had to go cause I had to get to the airport, but it was, it was sweet time. It was definitely sweet, sweet time and, and I just really appreciate these, these these men, these conversations I'm able to have is also with a good friend of mine, Lawrence Shaw, who's out there in Atlanta, and he's, he's just a, he's a [00:37:00] dreamer.
He's a guy who who thinks big and, you know, swings for the fences. And, and that's where I, I, I, I look at some of these things and. And I think we overcomplicate things a lot of the times. And you said, you said easy. And I think we use the word easy a lot of times, but I think, I don't think things are easy cuz nothing, nothing worth doing is really easy.
But sometimes they're really simple. Hmm. And we overcomplicate them. There's a big difference between simple and easy. A lot of simple things have very complex ways to play them out. But a lot of simple things are very much not easy, but they are simple. And if we come in and we add all these bells and whistles to things that if we just simply love a kid, that is simple.
Yeah. It's not easy. Right. And that's, that is something I've learned doing, you know, caring with orphan and vulnerable kids around the world. Like a lot of it is really simple. It's how do we keep families together? Okay? [00:38:00] That's a simple solution. That's very complex in its execution. It's not easy, right?
Think about our own family, right? It's simple. I gotta love each of my kids as they need to be loved. But that's complex and that's hard. Yeah, that is hard in its execut. Right. And so, so I think there is this, this simple and complex, It seems like a dichotomy, but it's not. It's actually, that's kind of our world.
Like if we just take it down to its bare essential foundational route, like what do we need to do? You know, it's like the other thing. And you know, if you look societally, right? I don't know if that's a word, but I just made it up. You see that fatherlessness is a massive issue. So what's the simple solution?
We gotta train out more fathers. Okay, that's simple. But yeah. Right. But it like, in its essence, it's simple. But when we look at, Okay, what does that actually look like? Whoa, my gosh, are you kidding me? Like, that's why we haven't solved it. [00:39:00] But I think when we go and we start. Over complicating. We don't even do things because we think they're too hard and they, they, they're way too much to do.
But if we just say, Okay, what's that one thing? What's the next right thing we can do? As I say, what are the breadcrumbs God's putting down for me? How can I follow that next breadcrumb? What's the next thing I can do the next right thing? And I see that with Jorge story. I see that with Dan's story, and I, and I know Dan better, but I even see that with, with Horst, it's like I see a team playing out there on a field.
I'm gonna go out and just play with. Oh, they need a coach. Okay, I'll coach. He didn't think back then. I'm gonna coach this team for 50 years. If he thought that he wouldn't have done it. Yeah, I could almost guarantee it. Absolutely. But then he went to the next year and the next year and the next year and the next year.
Same thing with Dave. He didn't say, Oh, I'm gonna be a national team. No, he went and did the next right thing that was in front of. And do that. Yeah. So anyway, I I could, you know, I got a little pulpit there for a little bit, so, I, [00:40:00] I, That's good. Loved these interviews. Yeah. Love these interviews. If you haven't listened to 'em, folks, go back and listen to 'em, soak 'em in, and you're gonna have more time to do it because as I said at the beginning, we're gonna take, you know, do this now every other week.
So it's gonna be two weeks before the next episode comes out. And I have no doubt at this point, I don't even know who that's gonna. Yet. But I have no doubt it's going to be a great, great person cuz we have some people lined up that are phenomenal. And again, you might have heard of them, you might not, but listen to it either way because I guarantee it will be things that you can learn from.
And I know Paul and I are definitely gonna learn from 'em cuz we're learning. Yes. That's why we love doing what we get to do. We get to learn all the time, which is awesome. Absolutely. So anyway, as we bring this halftime show two a close what do you got? Just parting words.
[00:40:51] Paul: No, I would just again, just encourage folks to, you know, over these, these next few episodes, you've got two weeks to, to, to listen and soak it in, to, to [00:41:00] share it.
I think it gives people more time to, to share as well and have conversations around these podcasts. One thing that I really love is when I run into people that I know and like, Oh, I listen to, you know, You know, your podcast with Dave Simion and ah, man, let's, you know, we just kind of start dissecting it between the two of us.
And I think that's something that this time will give people to do. Whether you're in a, in a, in a club setting or, you know, a couple college coaches or whatever, or your, your club players. You know, I, I think these are things, these are, we wanna create discussion. I want to, you know, we don't want to be the, we're not the know-it-alls.
Oh my gosh. We're not the know-it-alls. But if we can get content out there and give people an opportunity to discuss. And learn and, and take those topics and, and create new things. I think that we can all be encouraged by that. So I'm really excited about the format we've got coming up. I think it's gonna allow us to do a lot more too.
So I'm excited about that, Phil. So, I know the next the next few episodes are gonna be awesome.
[00:41:56] Phil: Yep. I I, I concur. And I, I think that it's something [00:42:00] that I just was thinking as you're saying that if, if you're not taking advantage of this material, I mean, use it in your coaching staffs, you know, to, to listen to an episode and, and just, and as you said, Paul, dissect it.
I know there's not a ton of time during season and I know right now we're in the middle of season and playoffs are coming up and you're like, Oh, I don't have any time to do anything. But I think that's, Pick an episode. If you're not sure which episode, send us an email like, Send it to you and say, Hey, we're going through this issue.
And I've done that with some coaches. I say, Hey, go listen to this episode. It will help you right now. Mm-hmm. , you know, I'm actually doing the leadership team for, for the high school team right now, and I'm having 'em listen to these episodes. Not all of them, but I pick, I pick one and say, Hey, we're going about, we're talking about DISC training this week.
Go listen to the episode with Tono because that will help you understand. You know, we're gonna be doing self-care here in a little bit. I'm gonna have him listen to Brad Miller episode. Right. Maybe the Dan Abrams episode, although they're high schoolers and I don't know if they'll be able to understand that, but I can barely understand
[00:42:55] Paul: it cause, But he's, but he brings everything down and makes it simple.
Exactly. The guy's, that guy's amazing. Obviously, [00:43:00] I'm just gonna pump that episode real quick. Go back, listen to Dan Abrams. That is an awesome episode.
[00:43:05] Phil: If you really, it's like, you know, he brings a PhD level down to a level, I think is what it is. So, but no, but that, those are things that you can be doing and just have those conversations and, you know, so that's folks we're gonna, we're gonna wrap it up right now and I'm just gonna remind you that you can do all those things, share with others, talk about it with people, even if it's with your kids.
You know, talk about it with your kids, with your spouse. Like, how does this help us if your spouse is a soccer person? Or even if not, they can still understand the principles. But if your kids play, I've heard so many parents say, Hey, I listen to this on the way to my games with my kids. I listen to this, and we're able to have great conversations about these different things.
So, so do that. Whatever it is, how you can engage this deeper, I. You know, do it because it's something that we don't just put this out here so we can just have conversations with people. We put this out here so you can help you flourish in every way. And so I do hope that you do take that everything that we talked [00:44:00] about on this show, you can find the show notes as always.
It will be at the house. Soccer explains leadership.com. You can, you can plug it, you know, just plug that into your web search and, and it will pop up and you can go to go check out the show notes. And we do hope that everything. That you're doing, you, You can use this material. You can use it to help you be a better spouse, a better parent, a better coach, a better leader, better in every relationship that you have.
And you can continually remind yourself that soccer does explain life and leadership. Thanks a lot. Have a great couple weeks.