Oct. 21, 2021

How Ted Lasso Explains Leadership, Part 4 -- Season 4 Halftime Show

How Ted Lasso Explains Leadership, Part 4 -- Season 4 Halftime Show

In Episode 52, Paul and Phil recall some of the highlights of the first half of Season 4 and continue their conversation about the leadership genius of Ted Lasso, Coach Beard, and Nate the Great, covering Episodes 7 & 8 of the show. Specifically,...

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In Episode 52, Paul and Phil recall some of the highlights of the first half of Season 4 and continue their conversation about the leadership genius of Ted Lasso, Coach Beard, and Nate the Great, covering Episodes 7 & 8 of the show. Specifically, they discuss:


  • Highlights from the interviews we had with Diego Bocanegra, Lance Key, Will Russell, and Tracy Hamm in the first half of Season 4 (2:47)
  • Making youth soccer more accessible to all kids, not just the wealthy, across the US (5:36)
  • Specialization in youth sports (9:10)
  • Using soccer to prepare our kids for adulthood (17:10)
  • The power of connections between coach and player, as with Ted’s connection with Jamie Tartt (23:40)
  • Ted apologizing to Nate the Great, and the power of saying, “I’m sorry.” (32:36)
  • Lessons learned from Ted empowering Nate to give the pre-game speech at Everton (35:32)
  • How the impact a coach can have on his or her players can last a lifetime in unexpected ways (40:20)
  • The lessons learned from Ted’s darts match with Rupert in Episode 9 (44:10)

Resources and Links from this Episode


Phil: Welcome back to How Soccer Explains Leadership. I'm very excited. It's it's been too long since we've been able to do one of these. We are now in the Season 4 Halftime Show and I'm sitting here with my brother in arms. Paul Jobson, Paul, how have you been over the last few

[00:00:17] Paul: months? Good man. It's been a long, been a long time.

We Talk to on here, but I've seen you since then, at least, right? I mean, we seen each other face-to-face, which is we don't get to do hardly ever. So that was cool. And I just plugging along here in the final, third of a college soccer season, but a lot of cool things have happened on this show since we last talked with the off season talks and whatnot, we'll get to that.

I'm sure. But yeah, things are, things are going well on this, in this part of the country about.

[00:00:45] Phil: Well, you know yeah. You mentioned we got to see each other. I mean, it was like, all these things we're talking about on the podcast kind of came together. It was this beautiful summer where we had did some DISC training with your team.

I got a warrior way hat. I mean, what the heck? [00:01:00] What else do you mean? I don't know. I, I got, I mean, you're looking here. If you're watching the video, I got, I haven't, you know, I got a shirt at Baylor, yeah. got a lot more than that too. So, even got some Torchy's tacos while I was in it. Wasn't Austin, but it was still in Texas, so, you know, that's all right. But yeah, so it was, it was a good time out there with you guys and was able to, I, I enjoyed over the summer being able to be little part of, of, of your team.

And seeing you guys doing, doing well this season.

[00:01:26] Paul: And I haven't you out too. I mean, this, this stuff sits on my desk cause I prepare for player meetings and whatnot, get my charts and just, it's been a helpful, helpful thing. So. I will highly encourage the the disc training for, for teams has been helpful for us, for sure.

So, Well,

[00:01:43] Phil: Hey, I didn't even think that was happened. Don't don't apologize. That's okay. I, I condoned that that message. I, I, to encourage that just because I've seen the impact of it, and I'm glad to hear that it's it's making the impact that I, that I expected it to. But also we've had these off season talks that we did [00:02:00] since the last post-match show that you and I did together.

Some people are like, you guys have done stuff together because you had these off season talks, but we never did any of those together. You got to do one with your wife. That was pretty cool. A couple of them with Marcy.

[00:02:12] Paul: I was a lot of fun and not realizing that that was her first podcast. I was like, I thought she had done a lot of podcasts.

And so we introduced her to the podcast world. Hopefully get her on here, get her on here with you at some point as well. But yeah, that was fun talking to her and just talking through our warrior way program and kind of what God's doing through that has been, was a cool, cool conversation that we have anyway, but it was fun to do it for others.


[00:02:37] Phil: definitely. And, and folks out there, if you're just, if you're just kind of tuning in on this to, to hear the Ted lasso conversation about episode seven and eight we're going to get to that. We're gonna get to that in a little bit if they, but hopefully if you have, if that's the only reason you came on and this is your.

Taste of how soccer explains leadership strongly encourage you to go back and listen to some of the other episodes we've had with some of these amazing guests. We just mentioned [00:03:00] those off-season talks, which were kind of a cool little thing. We just thought we'd try and get some really good feedback on those.

So we'll go back and listen to those. This is just a little. 10 15 minute episodes where we're Paul or, or I talk about these, these different things that are, that are really important to us. Paul, as he said, talked with Marcy about their warrior way program, which is an amazing thing they're doing out there in Waco and and potentially looking to, to expand across the country.

So that's something that's, that's interesting to you. That might be something to, to be thinking about what that might, what might that look like in my community. But beyond that, we have these incredible guests that were able to get on this. And this season, season four is no exception to that.

We've had Diego Bocanegra at university of Houston. We had Lance Key at university of Louisiana as well as Will Russell a marketer. He's in Russell marketing. doing some cool stuff there, but he's also a, big, huge fan of, of the game and play. And works with street soccer USA as well. [00:04:00] And then Tracy Hamm who's at UC Davis, the women's coach there.

She also is one of the few women in the world to have received the UEFA A coaching license. And so I encourage you go back and listen to those episodes if you haven't done so already, but also want to just talk with you a little bit, Paul, about the, the common themes that came out of those as I go back and I just listened to those and I just, you know, read the transcripts and, I just, you know, think through some of these big things that are going on in the world of soccer right now, you know, I know that the United soccer coach conventions are coming up in the next few months and I'm sure these things are going to be coming up. Anybody that you talk to, who's talking about soccer in the U S in particular, but also global are talking about a lot of these things.

And the first one is really just the idea that the soccer is, is becoming a rich man's sport in the U S. It's become, maybe isn't becoming, it's become, I'm really an elitist I'm making. So the idea of making high level youth soccer, more [00:05:00] accessible to impoverish communities, to people who aren't as wealthy as others, you know, Diego's episode was actually called giving you soccer back to the kids.

Right. And I, and I think you and I have talked about these things as well, you know? W what, what do you think about that? And, you know, as you listen to Diego's episodes, you listen to, you know, we talked on clubhouse with him about this stuff, too. And what are your thoughts on that? Just how we can do that if it's an issue.


[00:05:26] Paul: Yeah. I think that, you know, money is, is a big, big part of it, right? It becomes a money grab for, you know, you've got a lot of youth coaches that have poured their life into being com, becoming a coach and mentor to young people and find opportunities. To make money doing it and not just a hobby is attractive to coaches.

And I think when that happens, it takes away it's the haves and the have-nots, the haves can, can pay for good coaching and the ones that don't have the money can't pay for it. And I think what we've got to do is we've got to find a way to combine. The these profitable soccer [00:06:00] organizations to reach out to those who can't afford.

And that's the one thing I think we're trying to do here in Waco. And we're a small community. We're not a big, a big, massive city, like a Dallas or Austin or Atlanta or something like that. But, you know, how can we combine our quote unquote professional coaches in, in the league that we're doing organization we're doing so that they can still make some money, but how can we bring in kids who can't afford access to what we're doing as well. And I think that's, I think we've got to do a better job of, of finding those opportunities in our, in our local communities. And I think if each local community can commit just to their zip code, you know, or their, their local areas. I think we can make a massive impact, but I mean, I remember growing up and playing club soccer with volunteer coaches.

I mean, my we've talked about our parents coaching us. My dad didn't get paid to coach me and I played select soccer with him until. Probably 15 or 16 years old at a high level. And, and so, you know, I think those models can still exist. [00:07:00] But how to exactly do that. I think that's another thing with our, our country.

I think everybody has a different, a different idea, but. You know, instead of getting caught up in, how do we do it? Let's just, let's just take some steps forward in our local communities and see, you know, like Diego's doing, like a lot of us are doing our own little communities. And I think also getting the word out, I think there's, I think there are a lot of people doing some really, really good things.

But you just don't hear about it. You know, you're just thinking about the kids that come through the club system that, you know, and find their way through it. But it's not about, you know, the kids that are playing on the national team. come from poor communities, that's not why we're in this, we're in this to develop young people into, you know, people that can contribute positively to our society.

And, you know, can we develop some great soccer players through it as well? Sure we can, but I don't think that can be our absolute end goal.

[00:07:43] Phil: Well, and I think you hit on something there too, is the idea that when we have these clubs that cost a lot of money, the coaches are expected to teach soccer the entire time.

Right. And I think, you know, and that's not a terrible thing to get, to be a great soccer [00:08:00]player, but the vast majority, I think I just saw a stat the other day, only 7% of kids, all kids playing youth sports will ever play in college anywhere, whether JC on up to D one. So that is something that when we were kids and the parents were the coaches, it was clear that the parents had a vested interest in the character of those kids because they're their kids.

And they're their friend's kids. But now with coaches who are training and their job is to train soccer, not to train the individual and to train character and leadership and all the things we talk about on this show that we got to learn and that we get to implement in our, in our lives, outside the game.

A lot of those lessons aren't being taught at the youth soccer at the youth sports level, you know, and part of it too, that we also talked about at the, in these interviews was the, the specialization that's happening so early. And I think that's part of it too, is we're not playing on different teams. We're not playing with different coaches.

We're not playing different sports that will teach different lessons that will teach, you know, that, you know, will, [00:09:00] will help avoid burnout that will help avoid overuse injuries that will also help avoid. I don't think it's an accident that we're seeing more and more conversation about mental health and issues there.

With these, with the youth sports, the clubs, the way they are, the specialization. So early, the pressure on these kids to play a game At this high level, super early man, it's, it's just this compounding effect of all these things that come together, throw in a little bit of entitlement, right. That that's, that's going on in her, in our communities that we're, you know, we, we just think we deserve these things because we grew up in a certain zip code or.

We do a certain thing or we have certain parents, or we are, you know, we've always been the best player. Not that you've ever experienced that at a, as a college coach where people might come in and, you know, struggle because they used to always be the best. And now they're just one of many bests and some of those best players will, [00:10:00] won't play a minute in their four years.

So how do we take all that and go, okay. Like you said, there are steps and what are the things we can celebrate that you've seen some different, you know, Baby steps we can take toward getting back to where, you know, I'm not saying it was perfect when we were kids, there were a lot of issues, a lot of problems, a lot of, you know, there were parent coaches who were not the best people in the world and who weren't teaching all those lessons either.

Right? Let's,

[00:10:26] Paul: let's, let's, let's realize that, you know, a lot of the reasons that we've come to professional coaches. These leads is because we've had so many volunteer parent coaches that weren't the answer either. So it's not like there's one, you know, one substitute to the other in a perfect world.

Let's be, let's be honest. You know, we've got to find a balance there and it is a, it's always about balance. But I think when we talk about specialization as well, you know, conversation the other day with a kid, I've got a former player of mine. That's doing some lessons with a nine-year-old and she's been introduced to the club soccer [00:11:00] program and she loves soccer, but she does not like her.

Select soccer program and you know, the parents, what do we do? Do we just push her to, because that's where she's going to get the best training. And, but she just doesn't like it. She doesn't push herself. She doesn't compete. She'd rather play in the, in the rec league. And you know, our, our answer was well, she's nine.

What does she enjoy? Well, she enjoys the rec league. I said, well, does she enjoy her private lessons? Well, yeah. So does she get quality coaching from her private lessons? Yeah. So you want quality coaching and you want her to have fun. You don't need select soccer at nine years old, you know, like what's the, what's the goal of this select soccer program right now?

You know, it sounds to me like that's going to push her out of soccer. She hates it. So I said, if you, if she wants to continue playing soccer, she's at an age where she can still have fun. And at the end of the day, the kids, you know, probably not trending to be a world all-star, but you know, she won't be for sure if she drives.

Yes. She still has an opportunity to, to grow and [00:12:00] develop if she has people pouring into her. And, you know, you know, she'll have, have more fun and maybe get better because she's enjoying the process. And I think, you know, I've got you know, we're a soccer family, I've got four boys. One, they all play soccer.

One also plays football to play baseball. They need to enjoy other things I think because it'll help them decide. What do they really want to do? And I liked the influence of other people. I love the fact that I go to the baseball park and listen. I'm the only American boy that never played baseball.

Okay. Call me whatever name you want to. That's fine. But my older brother played it. He hated it. So I never played, but my boys love it. And I love the, the impact that those coaches have on them. I just sit back and laugh and cheer them on because I don't know enough, you know? And it it's fun. Okay. So I think without allowing your kids to try their things, you're, you're, they're missing out on opportunities to see what, you know, God given talent they actually have.

And, you know, maybe none of my kids play college athletics in any sport. I'm fine with that, you know, but you [00:13:00] know, that's not a problem for me and Marci and you know, I, I think that there's too much pressure on kids to be, to be great. I want them to be, to work hard. I want them to be good teammates.

I want them to honor their coaches and respect their coaches and what grows out of that will be awesome. And that's not up to me, but I think it's, it's tough to, to see so many kids being pushed to do things that maybe they do or don't like, I get kids that walk in my door here that they get here.

They finally realized that. Decisions to make and that they can make decisions and they realize, Hey, I don't really like soccer that much, you know? It was always just a tool to get to college and I did it and now I'm kind of like, okay, what's the point now I've gotten to college, I've got a scholarship know I like to play, but I don't love it.

And that's a tough thing to see those kids that had just been pushed by their parents to, to play for a scholarship or do something maybe they didn't have, they didn't have any. And I think that, that we miss something there with that. I know I've kind of gone on about it, but I think it's an important topic that we [00:14:00] talk about for our kids.

And, and you talk about stress and mental health. You know, also don't allow my kids to quit, you know, if they've committed to something and we're going to do it through the season, we get to the end of the season. We make some decisions, but we're not gonna be quitters either. So just some things I think, as a community and as a as a soccer culture I know we've talked with folks that they there's a soccer league. Was it in Houston that he has a soccer coach, put him through a basketball in the winter. Right. They played basketball, the soccer coaches, coach basketball. I think that's an amazing idea. I think it's awesome. You know, get those kids doing other things and see, how they, you know, maybe it's not their best sport, but put the best player from a soccer team on a basketball team.

Let them struggle a little bit, you know, like you were saying, For these kids end up in college, they've all been the best of the best. And then they get here and the cream rises to the top and some of the best players in their youth programs are at the bottom of the roster. And that's a tough thing to take because they've never experienced it in anything else in their life.

So I think [00:15:00] these are things we need to, to think about as not just as parents, but. Yeah. How do we encourage our players to, to go through a little bit of struggle and strife so that, so that there during a time where we can actually help them through those things?

[00:15:14] Phil: Yeah. I think some of the things we talk about on this show that we're hoping will come through is, you know, personally, and I'm not going to speak for everybody who's listened listening or has been on the show.

I'd much rather train up through these clubs, great people then great players. Right? You want both of course, but if we are just pushing through a bunch of people who can kick a ball well and have a great first touch and have, you know, be able to, you know, hit it strong with both feet and who, you know, know the game and know the different formations and know all, but.

Jerks in the world, [00:16:00] like, what are we doing? Right. So, so that's where I think now I'm not saying that that's what clubs are doing, but. I think that we need to put more effort and energy into the whole person, the whole player, the whole, the whole thing. Otherwise, the message being sent will be that soccer is everything or plugin.

The sport is everything and all these other things are cool. If you can do them, which I think is what's leading to a lot of the mental health issues that are out there. There's so much, it's a pressure cooker. Literally I've saw. I know some of my kids. Friends and teammates are having anxiety attacks and panic attacks.

My daughter, when she was eight, was it was pumped up so much to go to Southern California and play in tournaments. She got there and hyperventilated on the field and we thought she might have asthma. She cause she couldn't breathe, but I'm like, she couldn't breathe after like a minute on the field.

That's not an asthma attack. That's something else going on. Right. And what the [00:17:00] heck? Right? Like what, that's insane. It's completely insane. But these eight year olds are feeling that pressure. And if eight year olds are feeling it, then 18 year olds who are getting paid money to do this. And I was listening to another podcast recently and it was talking about the idea that people's maturity and character is not equal to the position that they're put in and the leadership that they're given too early.

And I think too often, we're putting these kids in positions that they're matured in their characters, not. To be able to make these decisions we're expecting 17, 18 year olds to make adult decisions when we haven't prepared them for that at all.

[00:17:39] Paul: Yeah. I think that the point of the preparation piece is, is critical.

Is it, you know, they get to a certain age and they're like, oh, you're in a. Well, you're not allowed them as, as a kid. I was just saying this a minute ago, like allow kids to make decisions that in their mind seem big while they have the handholding opportunity of a parent or a coach to help them through [00:18:00] that decision process.

And you're right. You know, kids or young adults are being put in leadership positions. They're not ready for, because they've never had to actually lead. They never actually had to make decisions or feel the repercussions of a good or bad decision and in a safe. Right. And in a safe way, as a, as a young person, I think those are things that we, we struggle with as parents just try to put our kids in situations where, you know, they can either succeed or fail based on their decisions, but failing.

You know, is it detrimental to their life or detrimental to their career, future careers, it's little things here and there. What did, what are the decisions that you're gonna make on a, on a daily basis to do or not do, but I think that's how we have to prepare. I mean, let's not forget, you know, we're not too far away from a generation where, kids were working on their, their parents' farms at as soon as they could, could walk and lift a lift a shovel.

And by the time they were 15. They were running the far, you know, so we're not far from that. We're not that far from this generations, but we're at a point now where we've got [00:19:00] 22 and 23 year olds that are entering the world who don't have a clue. They don't know what to do when their boss tells them they've done a bad job because through college, everyone just protected them.

So some things that, you know, that, and that comes to entitlement, we're encouraging that entitlement of like, Hey, I can kind of do. Whatever, I'll be fine and I'll be protected. And at some point that disappears and we've got to prepare a young people for that, for that environment moving forward.

And that can start, I can start as young as, as, you know, whatever the kid's comfortable with her, our family's comfortable with, but I think it's, if we're turning it to coaches we've got to put kids in situations in training where where they do fail. If you've got a great player that is just dominating, can you find an opportunity on another team, in a training environment where they're not going to be the best player, you know, Our girls when we send them off for the summer and we say, Hey, can you maybe not go back to your, the younger girls teams in your club?

Can you find an older men's team to play with where it's going to be really hard for you to be successful? You know, when you have success, you'll realize, [00:20:00] man, I had to work extremely hard for that. So creating opportunities and environments for young people to succeed and fail, I think is where we're kind of missing the boat.

We're trying to protect where that, you know, kind of pillowcase. And pillows where we're just protecting everybody from falling down and skimming their knee. Sometimes you need to skim your knee. Yeah.

[00:20:20] Phil: So, you know, it's funny you say that because it's, it's a good transition to The Ted lasso conversation.

We're now we're, we're going to be talking about season one. Still. I realize when this release is season two will have been out for months. So we're going to talk about that later, but there is this one little thing that reminded me of it. When you said that is when Isaac is, is struggling and, and in season two and, you know, Ted asked Roy to help him out, he takes them out to the field and basically it gets knocked down by these dudes out in the men's league. And he's like, what's going on? What are you doing? And basically making it tough, making it hard to succeed. What does that look like? How can we do that? You know, [00:21:00] and I, and I think that you are with the warrior way, teaching these principles early on, how can we intentionally incorporate principles into the teaching in the coaching and the clinics and these different things that we're doing that are beyond just the X's and O's of, of the game.

Right. That are, that are beyond these things. There are ways we can do that. It can be a both. And like you said, parents are not the answer. Heck how many different meetings do we have to have? Because parents are completely gone off the reservation with a lot of these things. Right. So I'm not saying that parent coaches are the answer that could be even worse sometimes because then there's all kinds of other things.

But what I am saying is there are principles that we talk about on this show. The reason we do this show is because there are things we can learn from this game that can help us through everything we do in life. And boy, this game could also be. Like I said, a cauldron that people come out of worse for the wear.

And [00:22:00] man, what a shame that is when I see these kids hating the game at 16, 17 years old, and it's not the game they're hate and it's everything that came with it. And some of them five, 10 years later, get back into it and just have a joy that you've never seen before because they see it as a game again, right.

Where you can learn stuff from. So with. There's this great show that we've been talking about, you know, Ted lasso, which, which one, every Emmy, I think they could have one. And except for the ones, they had the same people in for, you know, whatever. And that shows that, you know, it was good acting. It was good writing.

But what we're talking about here, the leadership lessons we can get with. And so we're, we're talking about today is episode seven and eight. We talked a little earlier. These are kind of the dramatic episodes, right? I mean, it's a comedy, but it's a drama comedy. Some of the other, a lot of the breakdowns, a lot of the, the other things that it's like, man, this is heavy boy.

There are a couple of little tidbits that I want to talk about and see what you want to bring out too. But at the beginning of episode seven, it was right after Jamie tart was [00:23:00] basically sent back to Manchester city. He was on. And they took him back cause he wasn't playing, you know, Ted wasn't planning for a couple of games and the reporters asked him, they say, Hey Ted, what do you think about tart?

Going back to man city? And he says, you know, it actually breaks my heart a little. I think one of the neatest things about being a coach is the connection you get to make with your players. That's a loss that hit me, hits me a lot harder and is going to stay with me a lot longer than anything happens while playing a game on a patch of grass.

What do you think about that as.

[00:23:30] Paul: It hits home. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think that, you know, the majority of the coaches that get into coaching, they're in it for the relationships with the players. They're not at least not initially in it for the wins and the losses well, for the winds and I didn't for the losses for sure, but they definitely not, not getting into it for the winds are not getting into it for the pay.

They're getting into it for the relationships. They, at some point they're like, they recognize. Relationship that they had with a coach, a mentor that they want to pass on. And I think that does a great [00:24:00] job with that. And I think that it's one of the things I think kind of going back to what we were talking about earlier is that I think as coaches, I think we always need to self-check ourselves as to why we're doing what we do and you know, why did I get into this you know, in, in, am I still in it for the same reason?

Do I need to be in it for the same reason? But I think, you know, it's the relationships, you know, I've always said. A coach that has a hard time walking away from a team, like in transition another opportunity, if it's easy, I don't think they've been doing it the right way. You know, if it's hard, it should be hard to leave, even if it's a better opportunity somewhere else.

You know, it should be hard to break those bonds with those, those players, if you've been doing it the right way. And I think I totally felt for, for Ted, because we've all had players that have left either they've transferred for one reason or another, or they've had a career ending injury and had to stop playing or or, or even just through graduation, there's certain kids like, gosh, I'm just not ready for that kid to leave yet.

You know, so I think, I think. Epitomizes what and why we all at [00:25:00] least initially get into, into coaching or for those relationships.

[00:25:05] Phil: Yeah. You know, and as I think about taking this to the world outside the game, too, right. I mean, If we're doing it right. I think it does become like a family. It becomes like, you know, it's, it's a group, it's a community.

I think about, about it, like the churches that I've been a part of. And I remember when I was leaving a church in Atlanta, the one that we helped launch, we were part of the launch team of this church, so that it was a small group. It was probably 30 or 40 people that were just, you know, we became like family to them.

Still, still are people I still talk with and connect with. And, and when I. The pastor of that church was driving me to the airport and he says, Phil, when you leave a church, it should feel like a divorce. It should hurt if you, you know, it, it should be something that there's pain, you know? And, and, and, and we were going to California.

Going to a different church or whatever in Atlanta, we were going to California moving and it was right. And it was good. And it was exactly what we were supposed to be doing. And [00:26:00] 14 or 15, actually, 17 years later. Now I can say the same thing like that. Yes. It, it was right and good, but it still hurt, right.

It was this, this, because something you're, you're leaving something that you're a part of. Right. And so to hear that, and the other thing I like about that, that quote is he said, Is the connection you get to make with your players, right? It was a get to versus half to this, this thing I think we've talked about on the show.

If we haven't, then if we see things as half twos, I have to go to work. I have to go coach, I have to do this. I have to do that. I have to make relationships with my players. It's going to be a duty thing and you're going to burn out. It's not going to be something that's going to last. When you see it as get to it changes every.

Yeah. It changes everything. Yeah, for

[00:26:45] Paul: sure. And I think it's back to the point of, I think that's where we have to continually check ourselves as coaches, you know, and, or our business leaders or, or whatever it is, you know, kind of what you're mentioning is that once it becomes a half to then, you know, kind of the effect that you're going to have on [00:27:00] those around you is going to be a lot different, you know, because you kind of feel like you're being forced to do something as opposed to you choosing to do it.

And I think that it's, there's a big difference in that. And that's a good point that you've made that.

[00:27:13] Phil: So the other thing it talks about. Are they hits on it. Doesn't necessarily talk about it is, you know, we, as coaches are coaching. Well, hopefully we're coaching ourselves, right? Hopefully there's a self-leadership.

As John Maxwell said, the hardest person to coach is yourself. Or to lead is yourself, I think was his actual thing. But we're going to talk about coaching here. And then there's coaching. Which we all know, we put the, the, we have their whiteboards and we talk about formations and we do the starting lineups.

But then there's this idea of coaching the player, the individual, that there's a bunch of individuals on the team that if we're not coaching each of them, well, it's going to be hard to coach the team well. And there will be breakdown and there will be conflict. There will be issues. It's why we did the disc training.

Right? The idea of disc training is you understand. First, then you can understand [00:28:00] others, then you can work together better and you can have better performance as a team. Right. But if he doesn't start with the self and then it doesn't start with you understanding each of those individual players, as you talked about, you go into team, you know, one-on-one meetings.

You go into talking to the players. If there's conflicts, you can, we can even refer to these things, but it's coaching those, play the play. Right. And how important have you seen that being over the years in your coaching, that, that importance of understanding each individual that makes up this greater team?

[00:28:32] Paul: Well, I think it's, it's, it's crucial those individual relationships Yeah. I think the, the times that we've slipped away from making that important or our years that we've struggled maybe not instantly, but at least in the, in the long run. And I think I think we do a good job. Just, I think we see the importance of getting to know players individually, because I think if you're coaching, you know, a team, you know, and you're just coaching the team you may get to a couple of people based on your personality, maybe matching theirs, but you're going to miss more than you.[00:29:00]

And I think you've got to understand each kid and how the, you know, what are their hot buttons, what are the things that motivate them and what are the things that shut them down and recognizing those things and having, you know, a good read on each individual to know maybe you've set and said something to the team as a whole that has gotten to the majority.

But, you know, there were a couple that made. I don't understand what you've said and you approach them separately because you know them well enough to know. Okay. They didn't get that message. You know, and I think understanding as a coach, that a lot of times when you're talking to a team the points that you're making to the team are usually for a couple of different people.

And usually those are the ones that hear it, you know, you're making a tough point to the team and the ones that need to hear it, have their ears off. And the ones that think you're talking about. You're not talking to them, you know, so you've got to hone in on those individual needs and concerns of the players.

But most importantly, I mean, this goes to a lot of what we're talking about goes into the disc things is that you've got to know yourself as a coach, too, and you've got to know how you're coming across how your communication style is, [00:30:00] is coming out of your mouth because you're going to hear it.

You're going to hear yourself one way and the others are going to hear you differently. So you need to know how you're speaking, how you communicate. And obviously part of communication is, is talking to other side as well. So, how are you listening to what others are saying also as a coach, it's not just about you doing what I'm doing right now and talking a lot.

There's a lot of listening involved as well. So, but that individual relationship is, is crucial. We talked about a bit ago where, you know, there's certain kids, you, you build great relationships and. They're going on to take on their life. You're excited for them, but at the same time, you're like, wow, we had to have a great relationship.

We're going to miss this piece of it here. I'm excited about what you're going on to do. But we'll miss that, that piece of them than here.

[00:30:40] Phil: So there's a lot of drama in these episodes going back to episode seven, eight, right? So Ted's dealing with his divorce. He's going through the divorce papers has a mental breakdown and lashes out at some of his his coaches, players, whatever.

And. You know, that was one thing that I saw is, you know, it's pretty simple thing, [00:31:00] but something we don't do very often is when we're unhealthy going back to personalities, when we're unhealthy in our personality style, the, the, the flip side of that personality that Ted has is, you know, the very high, high, very low lows.

Right. And in those low lows and I, I get it. I'm probably wired very similar to that character. Right. And those low lows you tend to lash out at. And I don't know if you remember in the episode Nate comes to his door and he's like, Hey, I'm coming to give you the thoughts that you asked me for.

And he just yells at him and says, you know, just get away, just get out it's late or whatever. I can't remember exactly what he said. We'd basically just kicked him out. But what he did, which was really cool, which is doesn't happen often enough is when he was at, when he realized it, when he was a self-aware and realized I just lashed out at him, he went and apologized.

He owned it. He took responsibility. He didn't just say, Hey, I'm the leader. I can do that. Forget all those other people. He said, I blew it. You know? And how many, how many times a week we, and I have, I know I've talked about this in our parenting, in our [00:32:00] marriages, The power of the I'm sorry, the power of the apology.

You know, even if the other person did a bunch of things to deserve, it doesn't matter. I mean, yeah, maybe he did come too late. Maybe it should have been something he should have done it, but that doesn't matter. I blew it. Right. And I know my, you know, my kids have come back to me and said, that meant a lot.

Thank you. But how have you seen that play out? What do you, what do you think about that?

[00:32:26] Paul: Well, I is a leader. He's modeling something very important, that we hope, you know, and you talk about in parenting or leadership, whether it's a team or business or whatever you're modeling the behavior that you, you want to see within your organization.

And, I think it's important to also understand as a, as a leader and this gets back to knowing the people that you work with knowing your, your players, knowing their personalities, you know, they're going to have those moments too, and where a player may lash out and, and you've got to, to understand, okay, that's not normal.

Let's get to the, let's [00:33:00] get to the root of that, you know, and let's figure out What that looks like. And that's a teachable moment where if they're not coming back to apologize as a moment to bring someone in and say, let's understand, maybe something's going on. That's not you, you know, it's not that what I've traditionally come to, to, to think I'd get from you as a, as a, as a player or a worker or whatever.

So while we understand ourselves can be that way, we've got to be compassionate to those around us. And that's why it's important that if we do. We are modeling what we want them to do also. So that apology that they're bringing them in to say, Hey, yeah, I totally messed up on that one. I, you know, I apologize.

Can you forgive me? That sort of thing. So I think that's, I think that's important that he's modeling what he would, he would expect of his players. And I think we have an opportunity as leaders to, to do that as well.

[00:33:48] Phil: Absolutely bosses. I mean, whatever, right? In any relationship you have, I mean that, that's, it's such a powerful, I mean really even enemy you've seen movies, you've seen things and you've seen probably in your [00:34:00] own life.

Sometimes it's even hard to say that word because it is. Right. You see the joke around, I'm sorry. You know, whatever, you've seen that. I mean, I've seen it in melanoma. I'm not going to put that on you that you've seen it, but I'm assuming you have you just see that it's like the, that, and I love you are probably the two things that are really powerful.

And I think it's really interesting that those two things are probably the hardest things for people to say, because what they are, they're both vulnerable words. Right. They, they put yourself out there. I'm sorry. Says in, in that, those two words it's I was wrong. I blew it. I I'd need to do things differently.

You know, like that's a lot of stuff to, to lay out there. Right. I love you obviously has a bunch of other stuff too. But that's something that I, I saw in that and in. You know, these, these two episodes also have two of my favorite scenes in all of Ted lasso. See if you can guess what they are. Do you have [00:35:00] any idea what I'm referring to?

[00:35:01] Paul: I don't know where you're going with that one. You got to enlighten don't oh man.

[00:35:05] Phil: Okay. All right. So one is a locker room scene. Do you know what I'm talking about now? Before the Everton game? So before the Everton game, when Nate did come and give him his thoughts.

[00:35:19] Paul: Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. What am I

[00:35:22] Phil: talking about?

Thoughts? Yes. Yes. He says you're given the pregame talk. So what this did. Yes. The pregame talk was, was pretty awesome. He basically just roasted everyone and laid everyone out and I love Danny Rojas rose to me, to me. But you know, he's like tough but fair. But. He laid into it. It wasn't so much what he said, what the lessons that I took out of it from a leadership perspective, one was Ted and powering him to do it and saying, you know, you can do this.

No, no, no, no, no, yes. You can go. You can do this. The other thing [00:36:00] I saw was Roy. When he comes up to Roy Kent and he S and he starts, you know, he started, he was reading everything and Roy takes the paper, crumples it up, throws it down and says, look me in the eye and say it to my face. Tell me what you. And it was this, this idea of, you know, this is what leaders do.

This is what if you're going to be my coach and I'm going to respect you. You need to actually not be just reading, hiding behind a paper, but you need to share from your heart. You need to share what you really believe in. You need to tell me to my face. I think there's liver power in both of those things in the, and I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on that from the.

Yeah. I

[00:36:40] Paul: mean, he was empowered not only by, by Ted, but by Roy. Right. And that's what you're saying. I mean, you think in the moment that Roy is stepping up to like, Hey, say to my face, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna knock you out. But at the end of the day, he turns around to the team. It was like, let's go, right. I mean, that's kind of what ends up happening.

So, that empowerment [00:37:00] moment for him is huge. He got the, you know, the support of not only the coach, but, you know, The captain. And you also see that kind of in that moment too. And it's been building, would you see in that moment also, Ted and Roy were on the same page. Yeah. You know, and all of a sudden you're seeing that, that community come together and that bond, that as it's shaping through the, through the season, you're seeing more and more of that.

But as a coach, you know, you're looking for as your, as a coach, you're not only building up. Players, but there's times where you're coaching coaches. And I think that in that that's saying that. Someone's always watching what you're doing. It's not just your players at your coaches. How do you manage your coaches?

How do you communicate with them? Finding the right moments to empower them. Had he done that earlier in the season, when, you know, he was being made fun of a ton it wouldn't have worked out, but he had slowly given him responsibilities and slowly given him it wasn't like he just showed up that day and, and made him talk to.

Yeah, that was a gradual [00:38:00] process that we can't look past also, is it managing those responsibilities when someone's ready to, to, to take them? And I think that's a pretty, pretty cool scene. I'd kind of forgotten about that one. Yeah.

[00:38:11] Phil: And also, I mean, we talked about this before. Sometimes the messenger is as important as the message.

Who says something, if, if Ted would have said all those things, or Roy would have said all those things, or, you know, maybe if Ted did, but like if beard would have said those things, it wouldn't have had the same impact. But because it's this dude, who's the equipment boy turned, you know, whatever. It was powerful.

And so I think that that was, that was something as well that, you know, sometimes you, as the coach pass the mic to somebody else. You know, give that other person the opportunity to say things, because first of all, it will empower them. Secondly, it might have way more impact than, you know, I know when my wife gets on the upset side and starts yelling, it has much more impact than when dad who yelled.

Often [00:39:00] believe it or not. I yell in my house. I mean, I know, I know it's shock shoe, so, yeah, but you know, it happens every so often, but when she does it, it has more impact because it doesn't happen as often. And so I think that that's something that we need to take as leaders to say, Sometimes pass the mic sometimes just give the opportunity, give the stage somebody else.

Whether it's halftime talks, whether pregame talks, whether it's during practice, whether it's whatever you don't have to be the mouthpiece all the time and you shouldn't be the mouthpiece piece all the time. And as you've done on your team and those one-on-one meetings, coaching the players to understand who are the people that connect the best with each player, let's go with them and let's have this.

Let's assign them to those people. And. And that's the empowering that's the it's delegation. It's not abdication. Delegation is, is critical, critical component to greatly. Okay. So, the kind of going into episode eight and we're going to finish it up pretty quick. We're going to finish up quicker on these, on this episode.

But one of the things that I, that you can't miss while you [00:40:00] can miss it, but it's hard to miss is that Ted has the pyramid of success on his wall. I think we've talked about it before, but they actually go up to it in that episode and focus on it. And somebody looks at it. That was something that his coach in high school.

Talked a lot about John wooden and the pyramid of success Jason's to Ducasse his coach, not Ted lassos. And that's one of the things that he said, I want to make sure that's there because that was, I thought really cool. He's a guy who playing a role of a coach who has an impact on these players and this actor, his high school coach had such an impact on him that he remembers this thing that he wants to honor him.

And he basically, a lot of the character is based on this guy. Just the way he cared deeply about the players. And that's, that's the impact coach can have.

[00:40:48] Paul: Yeah. And I think we, you know, I mentioned it earlier. Sometimes people get into coaching because of a, a relationship they had with a coach saw the impact and they want to, to replicate that, but it doesn't have to show up in, in coaching.

[00:41:00] Right. I mean, he's doing it as an actor. He's doing it now. There are a lot of great business leaders that take. Take examples from their coaches growing up in whatever sport they played and take those, those lessons into the corporate world. And I think this that's something that we, we miss again, going back to, you know, if we think.

we're, if we're doing it just for the player that comes through and ends up on a national team or plays professionally, then we're missing, you know, 99% of the kids that grew up to be people impacting our communities in probably more impactful ways, quite honestly, than the professional athlete.

And I think that's something we've got to grab a whole. And I think that's why it's so important. The kids looping all the way back around to impacting our communities for those who can't afford the coaching, those, those kids need, need those influences maybe even more. And they need those, those positive Mentors in their lives so that they can go on and be positive impacts in their community, whether it's professional athlete or just, you know, whatever it is that God has for them.

But I think that's, that's [00:42:00] kind of a full circle piece there, Phil well done for that. But I think it's, it is cool to see you today because, you know, kind of taking, realizing the impact that a coach had on his life and honoring. That man through this character is pretty, pretty cool. And I think it gives us a great perspective as coaches to remember that, you know, there's 99% of the players that we're coaching that are not going to go on to be professional athletes and are going to, but are going to impact our communities in one way, shape or form.

And we have a massive responsibility to be a positive impact on them.

[00:42:31] Phil: Yeah. I mean, think about that high school coach. He had no idea that coaching high school basketball was going to. Turning into this actor who gets this job as a coach, that's going to take the world by storm, right? Just that's pretty cool.

I wish I was smart enough to have intentionally done that full circle, but thanks for, thanks for being a great teammate and, Bring it to that that's that home all right. Two more things. One is just a, just an aside. One of my favorite quotes was [00:43:00] Danny Rojas. I mean, it's not this guy. I love this dude.

I mean, who doesn't like Danny Rojas, but you know, when, when Keeley is talking to him about what kind of products he wants to wants to be a sponsor for, and he goes, I just like, I like product. Spread joy to others. And she's like, well, I don't know how, how much that will pay. And he says, I like to give away joy for free, you know?

Right. So it was this and I, it was really funny, but at the same time, it's like, we need those players on our teams. We need those players who will give away joy for free and will encourage others to be joyful. And to remember the fun side, remember the joy that should be coming out of this game. So that was just a little aside.

And then the last one. Oh, yes. Yes. Especially if they're really good like him. And that's always a bonus boy, but the last thing is, but remember that highs and highs and lows and lows of that personality style, as we see in season two as well with Danny, but not to get ahead of ourselves.

All right. The last thing, my second, one of my other. [00:44:00] Scenes of the Ted lasso series is the dart game with Rupert that Ted had where, Rupert, they basically have a bet. Rupert being in the owner's box. And, and either he can't be there or he gets to pick the next two starting lineups and, and Ted, says, I go through the whole game.

It turns out he played a lot of darts as a kid. And at the Andy, he says, he says, you know, I've been underestimated my entire life. They used to bother me until I saw a Walt Whitman quote, when I was driving my kid to school one day, it said, be curious, not judgmental. If people were curious, you know, they'd ask things like, did you play a lot of darts as a kid, Ted?

Right. You know? And so it was a cool scene, but I like that idea of be curious. It's really that humble posture that we've talked about In that scene, Rupert, the ex husband of the owner of the club. I clearly did not have a curious, humble posture [00:45:00] coming into that game. He thought, I'm the, I'm a better dart player.

This guy's an idiot. There's no way he can beat me. And didn't even, and we get that way as you know, how many games have you lost that you should have? or come out with a draw that you should have won. And how many games have you won that you should have lost? Right? Because in the, how many of those times was it?

Because you went in overconfident, you went in not curious about, oh, maybe this person, maybe a couple of these players are playing out of their minds right now. Maybe, you know, they have they match up better against us. That's what scouting is all about. Right? As this humble posture of, you know, this is something.

We can't make assumptions about people based on different things that we just assume, or that we're judging them because they came from a certain background or they came from a certain club or their, whatever it is. Right. There's there's not only outliers, but there's also, you know, people [00:46:00]take us, you know, people surprise us.

Right. That's a good thing, but how have you seen that play out as far as that idea of be curious, not judgmental in, in coaching and recruiting life?

[00:46:10] Paul: Yeah. I mean, it's all over the place here. I think that's a huge, a huge thing I think in relationships and I think that's. Well, that is kind of what we're doing here is we're building relationships with, with players not just us and players, but players and players, and seeing that play out of, you know, you've got a stud kid that's coming, you know, a lot built up about her coming in and you know, the initial thing before the girls usually get to know that players.

Oh, okay. She's going to be a certain way because she's the star, the coaches that have a lot of, I have high expectations of her and they're building her up and whatnot and. Making sure they're giving her a chance to, you know, to see whether they really like her or not. And more times than not, they ended up being a great kid and, you know, ends up being fine.

But you see that a lot with kids coming in, you know, they're being sized up by the veterans before they [00:47:00] even walk in the door and we try to measure that and temper that. And start building those relationships early on, but we can do that as coaches too, you know, we can build up, you know, players in our minds to be a certain way.

And again, not asking enough questions not, not finding out what really makes them tick and not really finding out the best ways to communicate with them so that we can set them up for success. So being curious as a definite big, big time impactful statement when building relationship.

[00:47:27] Phil: Definitely. All right, man. Well, another Ted lasso halftime show that was about half Ted lasso. So maybe that's appropriate is coming to a close. It's always bittersweet. Love these conversations with you. Love being able to share these thoughts with you folks out there. And, you know, as, as we wrap up, you know, we talk about.

Wanting to engage more with you. And I, and I will tell you, you folks that some of our guests are people just that have reached out and ask some questions. And I got to know him and said, Hey, this would be a great conversation. You [00:48:00] want to be on the show. Others are people that have reached out and said, Hey, there's, there's this person that I think you should interview.

And I've been able to interview him and it's been amazing conversations. And also just people asking questions that. Friends with and helping them in different ways with different questions. And they've helped me with different things. And again, that be curious idea, it's often starts with just sending an email or, you know, and reaching out in some way.

And I encourage you to do that reach out to me, Phil at how soccer explains leadership. Dot com would love to chat with you about any of these issues we're talking about. If you have some questions about, you know, your journey in the, in the soccer world or your kids, or, or, you know, things in your leadership as a organizational leader and your different areas of your life, I'd love to be able to connect you with.

And if it's something Paul can help out with reach out to him as well. But it's something that we take it seriously. We're not just doing this to get download numbers. We're doing this to make relationships and to connect with people and hopefully [00:49:00] encourage and inspire and equip you to be able to to take everything you're doing to the next level whether it's leading different things, whether it's in your marriages and your parenting in your soccer game, whatever it is. That's, that's our hope for this. So with that, you know, reach out to us on the email, join the Facebook group rate and review the show.

Some more people can hear about it. The most that you can be doing, the biggest thing you can be doing to spread this show is if it helping you share it with some people that you think. Share it with people in your club, share it with people that you work with. You know, because I know it's helped me to interview these people.

I've been able to talk with. I know it helps me to have these conversations with Paul, so hopefully it's helping you as well. And I encourage you to share that with people that, you know and with that, I do hope that your, oh, and also the last thing I'm going, gonna talk about Warrior Way. Look that up.

With Paul Paul, remind me of the website on that

[00:49:50] Paul: it's jobsonsoccer.com.

[00:49:52] Phil: Alright, Jobsonsoccer.com is Paul's last name, soccer.com. And then the disc training, if it's something that you are interested in the DISC [00:50:00] model of human behavior, you heard us talk a little bit about it here. If you're all interested in that, send me an email at that same email address I talked about earlier, and with that hope that you take in all that you're learning from the show and you're using it to help you be a better leader a better parent, a better.

Spouse and better everything that you're doing. And we do hope that you're taking what you're learning from this show. And it is reminding you that soccer really does explain life and leadership. Thanks a lot. Have a great week.