Season 1 Post-Match Wrap-Up with Paul Jobson

[00:00:00] Phil: [00:00:00] Welcome back to How Soccer Explains Leadership. I'm your host, Phil Darke as hopefully you know by now, if this is your first episode with us welcome. And if it's your first episode, you also will not realize that we actually have some big news today. We have a new co-host as you have learned throughout the last 10 or so episodes our prior cohost Ryan North had some issues. He had some family issues. He had some other things that were really tugging at him and taking his time that were, as important as this podcast is, were much more important than what we get what we going on here.

So. I was able to talk with one of our past guests. And I know several of you out there have talked to me about how much you have enjoyed learning from this man. And so I'm very excited to have now with us, Paul Jobson, head coach, Baylor soccer. He was the first guest on this show and he is now officially the co-host for these halftime shows, pregame post game, all [00:01:00] these things that we're going to be doing.

And so, Paul, welcome back,

Paul: [00:01:03] man. Well, Phil, thanks for having me back and thanks for wanting me back. Quite honestly, I hate that that Ryan wasn't able to continue, but I do appreciate you thinking of me to step in. And, I think we talked about it on the first interview there that the, podcast was probably going to go nowhere, but up.

And I fully agree that every episode since episode two, where you interviewed me has just been fantastic. And I've learned a ton already from this podcast, and I just really appreciate you. Including me moving forward here. So appreciate it.

Phil: [00:01:32] I mean, it was a short list of people I thought of, and I'm very glad that you said yes, as I imagine a lot of people out there are as well.

And if you did not listen to that first episode with Paul, I encourage you to do so because we're not going to go into a big bio of him or anything right now, or talk about all the things that we talked about on that episode, because you can go back fortunately with the. Beautiful things we got with technology.

You're able to go back to that episode two, and listen to it. We will have the link [00:02:00] in the show notes to this, but if you're well looking at the show notes, all you need to go is hit the episodes tab at the top of the screen you're on and go back to that episode. So, Paul, I got to ask, I mean, is this just your dream come through town now to be co-host a.

Amazing record breaking

Paul: [00:02:16] a major podcast. Absolutely. I've been the guest on a few podcasts over my career and I've just got to say, I've always dreamed of being on the How Soccer Explains Leadership as the cohost. And now I just, I, I, I've got to readjust my goals. It's a new year, so I've got to reevaluate my goals for 2021 to see, what I can do to kind of.

Can I get past this? What's the next thing, you

Phil: [00:02:39] know, I, I just, I'm going to encourage you and I I'll spur you on to that challenge, hopefully to be able to reach those new Heights now to bring it back down to serious here,  the last five interviews we've had since the halftime show I did with, with Ryan North it was really cool. I didn't, I didn't even plan it this way. It just. Just so happened that the guests we had, we started with [00:03:00] an owner of a club in Denmark, Jordan Gardner. He also owns clubs and Wales and Ireland.

I'm a co-owner of those. And we ended with a supporter and I, and I've always said to people, and I've said on this show here and there, that, the owner is a critical component of, of clubs and of teams and the supporters and the fans are critical components of clubs and teams. And in organizations, the leaders are critical components.

The customers are critical components, the supporters of those, the shareholders, the different people who are a part of that are very critical, important people. And we wouldn't have the game on the field, particularly in the professional level, without those supports, we wouldn't have it at the youth level.

Even if, either if the parents weren't paying, if the parents weren't supporting their kids and driving them to it and all these other things. Right. So that was kind of cool. But we also had everywhere in between. We had a coach at Trinity Western Graham Roxburgh. We had two leaders of different, very, very different organizations.

We had a nonprofit leader, Matt Parker. We had Rick [00:04:00] Clark, who is the admissions director at Georgia Tech. And I loved what all of them brought to it. But. as you know, if you listen to those interviews and I encourage you folks, if this is again, if this is your introduction to this podcast, go back and listen to those interviews, go back and start with Paul's at, at episode two and listened to the interviews, learn from them and then engage with them.

Talk with us about them. Drop us an email info@howsoccerexplainsleadership.com. Let us know different guests that you think would be good to be on the show. Let us know your feedback, any questions you have that you want us to talk about next time we do one of these, we can, we can answer those listener questions.

and I've got. Several of the guests that we've had. I've had requests from people, Hey, you should connect with them. You should connect with them. And in this next season, we're going to have that as well. So without more, just talking about that introductory part of this and introducing.

Paul to you, again, reintroducing you to him. I want to go to Paul because I talk about in these different episodes, I give my commentary. and you guys are [00:05:00] probably already sick of hearing from me today.  so Paul, what of those last interviews that I just gave a quick summary of really stuck out to you as you were listening to them and engaging with them.

Paul: [00:05:13] Yeah, a couple things. So first off, I think we'd be remiss not to talk a little bit about the Coaching Character podcast. I mean, I really, you know, you took a break from how soccer explains leadership over the holiday. And really, I personally really enjoyed getting to know what Coaching Character Podcast was going to be about and what you and coach Roz are doing there.

With the Playmaker organization, which I hadn't heard of. So it was a great introduction for me of that organization. And I know we're not going to, I don't want to spend a ton of time talking about it, but I would encourage also your listeners if they haven't listened to that, get an idea of where that's going to go, because there's gonna be a lot of quality content coming out of that.

But shifting back to how soccer explains leadership, one of the things I, I gotta say, Phil I haven't even told you this, but when I first jumped on to the, this most recent episode with Mark, I was like, wait a minute, we're talking to a supporter here of [00:06:00] Leeds. Like, where is this going to go from a leadership standpoint, but man, what a great podcast.

I mean, I really loved what, what he brought to it, just a true supporter of Leeds United, which I've just started to get into that that show what's it called? Bring it, bring it home or take us home. Take us home. Yeah, which was great. So connecting the dots for me from a true supporter of Leeds United was really cool.

And you have, you've really had some fantastic insights from different levels of leadership over the last few weeks, for sure. And I've really enjoyed that. One of the main things that stuck out to me and maybe it's something that's just a hot button for me, but what I keep hearing that it's running through the veins of this podcast is culture and how each, each leader.

How they're engaging culture whether it's through getting to know their players better, what does that look like? And I think that was Graham Roxburgh. We've talked about, Hey, I've really got to get to know my players and who they're about and what drives them, what motivates them to, Jordan, he talked about, surrounding himself with people that are smarter than him, that's part of culture. [00:07:00]

And just down a list of the five different folks that you talked to But me being a culture guy and what that looks like and how my culture is important to me, I love to hear some of those different insights of, of how they drive their culture. Maybe drive isn't the right thing, but how they massage their culture, how they make their culture important and their different arenas,  Even Rick, from Georgia tech, which by the way, I'm an Atlanta guy.

So when I saw, Hey, Georgia tech, I went through my stuff. I'm like, should I know this guy? Did I ever play soccer with this guy? Unfortunately I don't think so. But how he leads his team at Georgia Tech was really cool to have some behind the scenes insight. As a college guy, university guy, how does admissions do that?

How does he lead his team? And I just found all those to be just the interweavings of culture and how important it is from every standard even even to Mark with the culture of, of Leeds United and how that affects him as a supporter and him as a leader within his church.

Phil: [00:07:51] And you didn't mention Matt Parker either, but he was talking about that too, but I think the cool thing about that culture conversation and how it [00:08:00] is critical is it's not like there's a formula to culture and it's not, like you say, here is a healthy culture. Everyone goes to this. It is who is the leader, the leader is going to, and that's one of the great things about that Marco Bielsa conversation that I had with Mark Pease. Bielsa has a very unorthodox approach, and talking with Jordan Gardner, if Jordan talked to his manager and said, I want you to just emulate Marco Bielsa. And do what Bielsa does at Leeds here at, Helsinger in Denmark, it wouldn't work. It's just not going to work because first of all, that manager is different than him. He doesn't, but you're not going to believe those same things too, but the culture will take on the personality of the coach manager leadership, but it will also be transformed and changed as well as Graham said with the people that actually make up that team, because you can't as a coach of Baylor and, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't just say [00:09:00] here's our stamp. Here's our culture. It's never going to change even if we have totally different players next year, which has you talked about an Your interview. That's one of the big challenges of college. You're getting a new team every year, You're bringing in a big chunk of new people every year. So you have to bring them in to the culture that is established, but it will be changed by each person that comes in because that's a new organization with each new person.

Is that right?

Paul: [00:09:24] Yeah, there's an ebb and flow. And I think you do that with any culture that you're leading and, and you've got new people coming in and out, whether it's, you're leading a professional club and you're an owner or you're a manager and there's a new owner, there's all kinds of things that are changing, but just personalities of a team for talking just football, from a team perspective.

Yeah. The new, those new personalities. That you bring in, definitely affect your culture, but you hope that you are grounded in certain things that don't change. there's Certain things about your culture that are important to you. Like Bielsa, there's certain things about his culture that are important to him, and he's going to direct the rest of his culture around those things are important to him knowing there's some things up here on the [00:10:00] outside, on the periphery that can change a little bit based on personalities.

And as I think as a good leader, you've got to be able to change some of those things too, because you can't isolate people, as long as they're not a cancer. And we've talked about that.  but I think that you're right. You can't just go in and say, Hey, I want you to be like Bielsa because that coach, or that manager may not have that personality.

You may not be able to conduct that in the right way. But I do think as leaders something that's important is that we look at people like Bielsa and we look at other managers or leaders, or even the folks that you have on this podcast, how are they directing their culture? And what are the little pieces that we can pick up along the way that make us better as leaders.

And that's what I love about. this podcast is that I've picked up something from at least every episode that I want to try to incorporate or emulate or massage to be something that's now mine. And I think that's what great leaders can do is, pick up on other people's. successes or even failures and not just learn on your own things.

And I, I pulled up a ton from Graham. I just think he's got some, some amazing things. I think we're probably in [00:11:00] align in a lot of the ways that we approach things. But I even learned, Hey, I think I could do a better job of getting to know my players better. and I'd asked you this question.

I know you do a lot with DISC with personality things. And I know he, he talked about what was it he talked about that he uses is it Berkman? So Berkman versus DISC. I think as a coach, as a leader, I'd love to hear the differences and maybe not a long thing, but what are some of the differences of like a Birkman and a DISC and there's Enneagram and there's all these different things.

Maybe as an expert, maybe you can kind of share with us as leaders a little bit, some things that are some differences

Phil: [00:11:30] there. Absolutely. I think a lot of those, the assessments, the different things, people usually say, which one's better? They asked me which one's better? And I, the response I have is they're just different.

It's like asking which culture is better. Well, no, they're different and they're used for different purposes. So let's just take the Berkman versus the DISC are actually very similar The Berkman is based on the DISC. The DISC is a very old ancient thing. And so you say DISC and people say, yeah, I've already done the DISC.

We don't do the DISC. [00:12:00] The DISC is something that.

Paul: [00:12:01] It's like doing the chacha. It's like doing the cha-cha. You do

Phil: [00:12:03] the DISC, you learn it. You're done. No, it's not. It's not that simple. You learn it. And then you're actually able to apply it, but you have to really know it and understand it to be able to apply it.

So you can learn, you can do an assessment, you can get your personality style and you can know yourself, You go get the report, read the report, you know yourself. But you don't really understand it. You don't really understand. Okay. But how do I understand other people, you got to really understand the DISC to be able to go and learn other people.

The beautiful thing about the disc is that it is simple. And so, because it is simple, it's great for communication. It's great for conflict resolution. It's great for team building and to be able to work within a team and understand your teammates because the idea of the DISC is you can ask two questions and understand another person and really their personality style. You can say, are you more outgoing or are you more reserved? That's the first question. The other question is, are you [00:13:00] more task focused or are you more people focused? Those two questions? You can get an, a good idea of who, what that person is like.

Now, even before asking those questions, you can just listen to a person once you really understand it. Listen to the language they use, you know a high I, people focused outgoing person, like myself would never, If he's sane and sober would never say something like I love spreadsheets would never say process and procedure.

Oh, I can't wait to go do procedure manuals. I can't wait to read these things. It just wouldn't happen. My COO in my organization is actually a high. I see, which is task-focused reserved the opposite of me, and he's also task-focused and outgoing, but he's a very task focused person. So he actually said yesterday in a different call that I had, that he does his journal in a spreadsheet.

Okay. So you just understand that, I could just listen to him, say that and go, okay. I know pretty much who he is and that would, then when I really [00:14:00] understand DISC, I can understand, okay, how do I communicate with him? How do I motivate him? How do I understand that he really needs to have excellence as his driver?

Whereas me as an outgoing. people focused person really has fun as my driver. And it doesn't make him good me bad. It doesn't make whatever. But you heard Graham talking about that, interestingly, where he said, I asked him the question that I kind of laughed when I listened to back, I was like, wow, that was kinda, I just said that I didn't think about it.

It wasn't my script, but I said, your ideal player is you. Yeah. And th that's not saying that you want everyone to be like you, but you know you. You understand you. And so that's what I'm getting at with these different things. So I just wanted to give a brief thing on DISC.

If you haven't heard of DISC, if you wanted to learn more about DISC, definitely drop me an email. Let me know. I can do as much about it with the user. Want, if you want me to help train your team up in it, I'd love to be able to do that with you. Just drop me an email at phil@howsoccerexplainsleadership.com, but That's not what this is [00:15:00] about though.

This is actually comparing them. so let's take the Enneagram for instance, cause that's really kind of flavor of the month for a lot of people everyone's loving the Enneagram. Let's talk about the Enneagram. If you're with your college students, my guess is all of them know their Enneagram number and they're talking about Enneagram all the time.

Cause it's what all the, my daughter does it with her team and everyone knows the Enneagram, even though they all do the Berkman too. When they're in their dorm rooms, they're doing the Enneagram. Okay. So what's the Enneagram. The Enneagram is really a great. Introspection tool. It's a great way to know yourself and understand yourself, but because there's nine types and there's three subtypes of each one.

It's really hard to use it as a communication tool and a team tool, because it's really hard to really understand.  also, if you talk to any Enneagram experts, the first thing they'll tell you is don't type other people. So if you really hear that well, okay. And I'm not saying that DISC we're putting people into boxes, don't hear what I'm not saying there, but with the DISC, you can know generally how to communicate with them.

And I, I like in that two different languages. So if [00:16:00] I speak English, they're speaking Spanish. If I try to speak English and they don't speak English, they're going to be like, what are you talking about? If I'm speaking high personality to a C, they're going to be going, what are you talking about as if I was speaking Spanish?

Or English to a Spanish speaking person. The Enneagram is even more, it's like all these different languages and you're going to have to be fluent in all those different languages. There's no way. But you can really understand and be fluent in yours. And if maybe you have your wife or your husband or your whatever that's really close with you.

Maybe you can know their's and how to work with them, but you're not going to do that with an entire team. Myers-Briggs is very similar to the disc, but it's just a lot more complex, 16 personality types to learn all those really hard four letters. What do they all mean? Actually, eight letters.

What do they all mean? I just, I know my type, but to really understand that with others, the other is StrengthFinders. So, and I'm going to stop with this one, cause I've already gone on longer than I wanted to on this, but I think [00:17:00] it's an, it is important to understand these tools. Before I do that, I just want to say Berkman, like I said, very similar to DISC.

It goes more into your stressors. And I mean, all of that, you can learn with the DISC, but that's not what you'd learn in a basic deal, but it goes into what's your stress reactions to things, what things drive you that's really what the Berkman does more so than your traditional DISC studies. But it's based on the same quadrants.

And, and so, and then the StrengthFinders is the one that I love finders absolutely love it, but it's not a personality tool. It's not a personality style tool. It's not really a great communication tool. It's great for leaders to know though, what are the strengths of your people? So particularly in organizations, it's great for productivity to say, okay, what are your strengths?

How can we best use your strengths in the content, in the context of our organization? But for instance, with StrengthFinders, it's not a great personality tool because it doesn't say a lot about your driver and your personality. [00:18:00] To give you an example, my number one, strength in StrengthsFinder is Arranger.

So to arrange things. If you heard that you would probably think I'm a task focused C type personality, because Arranger, well you like spreadsheets, you like all these things and you like to arrange all these little things into whatever. You'd think I'd love Legos. You think I'd love all these different things, but really when you know my personality, you know, no arranger is really, I arranged people.

I can arrange strategy. I can arrange organizations. I'm a big picture arranger, not a detail tree arranger. I'm more in that 30,000 foot view. So does that, does that get,

Paul: [00:18:38] I think that's great. I think Phil sometimes, we probably went down a rabbit hole there a little bit, but I, I think, sometimes as a leader where if you're not familiar with personality tests or, or, or things like that. You can get caught up in kinda what you said the very beginning, which one's the best, because as a leader, I want to, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to invest in it and we're going to do it the best way. But maybe the theme of this is, Hey, number one, because I [00:19:00] know that it was talked on a lot through you.

And I think that even Mark talked about it a little bit, first thing first is get to know yourself, right? You got to know yourself, but not getting caught up in which you know, which one you're going to do, but maybe committing to one, keep it easy and simple. Because as coaches, as leaders, we have a hundred other things to navigate, but keep it simple, know yourself, first, identify who you are and what you're about.

And then you can branch out from there. But I think. I know for me that there's a lot of relief in knowing like, okay, there isn't one that's maybe better than the other. Maybe some that are more simple and less difficult to figure out and identify personalities within a team.

But I think those are important when it comes to culture back to the very beginning of it, of, Hey, you've got to know yourself as a leader, when you're building your culture. And I think though some of those practices, some of those things like DISC can really help. And I know I mentioned that because I know you're an expert in that area.

And I figured you might go on it a little bit, which was helpful to me. Maybe it's a selfish question. But I think it's good for leaders, Cause I think we can get caught up in well, We're not going to do one cause I'm not sure which one's the best. But I think that was a great point.

Like let's not get [00:20:00] caught up in what's the best, first off, figure out who you are know yourself and I thought your question the question that you just mentioned a minute ago to Graham just kind of his reaction. You caught him off guard a bit, it was like, Hey, you're looking for yourself.

And when you asked him that question, I was like, you're talking to me. I was like, man, I, I am. because even as a football coach, as a soccer coach, you identify players, even in a scouting realm. You're like, man, I like that kid. And then you realize I don't need another one of those. She's a lot.

Like she plays like me, I need more kids to play like, Marci, I need the tough kid out there. That's gonna, take control of the field. So, because I know myself though, and I know what kind of player I was and the players that I, like, I also know that I can't have all of those players.

So within your community and your team around you, you surround yourself with everyone who's like you you're probably not going to have a successful culture.

Phil: [00:20:47] That's absolutely right. And  to go back to that language idea, that language concept, it's why I use it and why we use it a lot in training is, when you say typically, like, I really clicked with that person when you're in recruiting and you're like, I [00:21:00] really liked that kid.

It's typically because you're the same personality or it's the same type player, or it's the same, because why? Because you're fluent in that language because you know that language, you know, you, so when you see that you click with that person now, What also happens though, is you, those two will often rub themselves the wrong way And they'll, clash when it's great. It's great. When it's not, it's really bad. And that's why you see actually in a lot of marriages to go a little bit further, but a lot of marriages, if you're the same personality as someone, 75% of the time, they end up in divorce. If you're the opposite personality, 75% of the time, they stay together for the longterm.

It's tremendous stats when you look at, but it makes sense, but it goes back to that. You click with somebody because you're like them, but here's the beauty of understanding these things is when you really understand it, you can actually stretch yourself. And this again is part of culture. If your culture is one of learning, If your culture is one with a humble posture, you realize that you don't know all [00:22:00] these things, and you will take the time to learn these different languages, to learn these different personalities, to understand what they all are.

Then you'll become a better recruiter. Then you'll become a better coach. Then you'll become a better everything that you need to be as a leader. Because you will actually take the time to learn these other things. So therefore, when you're out recruiting, you won't be rubbed the wrong way by these people.

You'll actually be attracted to it to say, we need that.

Paul: [00:22:28] take it from recruiting to, to interviews. if you're leading an organization, recruiting is, interviewing, potential folks who are gonna work with you, whether I'm interviewing another coach for staff or, a future strength coach or dietitian, or whoever works with in my culture, that culture is important too.

And I know that it was talked about through some of these episodes, but kind of on the same page. I really liked. Matt, Matt talked a lot about being on the same page. And I think that what you're talking about too, is when you know yourself and you're connecting with those that are like you, that's easy to be on the same page with them, but if you [00:23:00] are a leader that's willing to kind of step into the differences to be on the same page with those that aren't like you, if we want to, if we can, we can say all day as leaders, like I know I need to.

To not be the smartest person in the room. And I know that I need to have different people easier said than done though. Right? Cause when you sit in that room with your staff or with your team, and there's a disagreement and you're in charge, that pride takes over sometimes and you just worry about, no, this is, this is it.

But if you really know yourself and you know that about you and you've hired these people and you work with these people on your team that have some other ideas, if you know them and you know yourself, then kind of what Matt was talking about being on the same page is important. And also also talked a little bit about, he talks about playing out a position and I really liked what Matt had to say about playing out of position.

And I know what you thought after going through the interview, you talking about playing out of position, but I see that in our culture of everybody has a role but sometimes when someone's hurt, Or someone steps away or maybe someone's got a red card and they can't play it from a soccer or football perspective.

Playing out a [00:24:00] position is easy to remember. Well, our, our right-winger has gone. Then maybe one of our, substitute right backs has to step in that position. What does it look like to play out a position or in your industry, if someone's gone on maternity leave and someone else has to step up and pick up the slack, what does that look like?

And how does your culture support that I think is a really good thing to kind of step into a little bit. I thought Matt did you and Matt did a really good job of talking about that a little bit.

Phil: [00:24:25] Definitely. And the things that popped up into my head, and as you were talking about those different things, where one was with Graham, the one thing that I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on too, and I, we will come back to what you just talked about with the playing out of position.

But the one thing that he said that I definitely wanted to hear your thoughts on was where he said that about the striker. Remember that about the striker, where he says, what do you do when a striker has, you know, they're a bit arrogant. Or they're really arrogant, but that's what makes him a great striker.

And that's when you learn personalities, you realize that a lot of the great strikers are these high D dominant task-focused outgoing personalities that [00:25:00] often are, there's a lot of other four letter D words that you could think of to describe those people. And yet that's what makes them great. So what the key of that is is how can you get them to be healthy?

So have you seen that too? In the context of your program?

Paul: [00:25:18] Well, first of all, I would love to have one of those just, that is a hard person to find, that absolute goal scorer. Like I'm trying to find that, and we've made it work a lot of fantastic girls that know how to score goals, but yeah, you find that it goes back to that principle, too sometimes your greatest strength is your greatest weakness, you know, just in life, the things that make you, who you are.

that may separate you from the crowd sometimes can be a weakness if you used in the wrong situation. So to that, egotistical goal scorer, they need that because they want the ball. They have to have the ball. They want you to know that because they want your first choice to be, to give them the ball so they can do what they do, because they're great at it.

But the other side of it is if they're not getting the ball and they feel like they should've gotten it, then that, [00:26:00] egotistical nature can be a detriment to a culture. Right? Like, Hey, play my feet. like, Hey, run to that ball. No, no, you play my feet. I'm the goal scorer. Just give me the ball and I'll take care of the rest.

But. How you manage that? I think from a coaching perspective, at least for me is you have to talk about it. You have to address it again, know yourself, And I think as a leader, you have to help those around, you know, themselves too. So if I can take that egotistical  striker, whoever it is and you can just say, Hey, listen, this is what I love about you. You want the ball, you gotta have the ball. I want you to have the ball. I need you to score goals, you know? And there are moments where that is absolutely great.

But when you're off the pitch or we're in the locker room or we're in different scenarios, You need to know this about yourself, because we've got to back down a little bit in some other areas, but in these scenarios, this is great. And these scenarios, maybe not so much. And I think as a leader, if it's important, For you to know yourself as a leader, it's also important for you to help those around you know, themselves also because everyone in your culture is a leader.

They're an influencer. We talked about [00:27:00] it in our first interview, influence So by helping others know who they are and what they're about, their influence will go further. And a person like that, that goal scorer, they need to have fantastic influence on that team because I do want them to have the ball.

I don't want a girl to not give that girl the ball because I don't like her. I don't like how she treated me in the locker room. I don't like what's going on off the field. So I'm not going to give her the ball. And that dynamic is crazy within itself. But back to knowing yourself, helping others know, know themselves as well

Phil: [00:27:31] And that point there is why it's so important to get the kids and use sports, to get the young women and men in college game to get the men and women in the pro game to know themselves as well, to get an assessment, to be able to do that. Because if you just tell them something and it's from you.

With certain personalities, some personalities will listen and go, yes, coach, but the ones we're just talking about, they will not, they will say, and then they'll [00:28:00] have a different four letter word that they're saying in their head to you. And that's, that's just who they are. And that's what, as you said, that will be a virus.

If unhealthy, and usually those personalities get unhealthy at some point, if they're not aware, but if you have that as assessments to be able to go to them and sit down with them and say, Hey, you know what? This, this helped me understand you. This can help you understand you. And then just so you know who I am and how I'm coming at you.

If I say something like this, it doesn't necessarily mean how you might interpret it. So if you have a question, ask me, and then I can actually go and do that. And we might need to bring in an interpreter. Right. Going back to the language thing, You may need to bring in someone who is healthy with their similar personality to be able to say, actually, this is what he means.

And that's really important to know and understand. but going back to that, again, if this is all foreign language to you drop me an email, I can help you out. I'll give you a, if you're a coach that coaches a team, I'll give you a free assessment, I'll walk it through with you.

just drop me that and just, say you're a part of this podcast [00:29:00] and I'll do that for you. So, and I'd love to be able to get you started on that. But I think that with that playing out of position conversation, I think it's so important because we do that so often. I mean, even in our marriages, You know, there are times where we have our roles. We have the things in our marriages that we're supposed to do. But my, my main role typically is not being at home throughout the day, dealing with things at home. but now over the last two years, and over the course of our marriage, it hasn't been the case, but over the last few years, my wife has now has a job as a PE teacher at a school.

And it's awesome. And she's amazing at it. And I love seeing her thrive in that. And yet it causes these gaps and these holes that now we say, okay, okay. Who's going to do this. Who's going to do that. Who's going to pick up this. Who's going to, Hey, can you do this? Can you do that? And we're having to juggle these things.

We're having to play at a position and we're having to cover for each other. And so that leaves other gaps. And so how are you covering for these different things? And that takes a flexibility. Again, it takes a learning posture, it takes learning new things and it may not be [00:30:00] the way you've always done it.

And so I think that that was something that our guests were able to talk through and talk about. And as you said, I, I loved how the different guests brought different angles to that. And even talking to Rick Clark at Georgia Tech, to hear him say, As a center back. And I love how he talked about how him, his role as a center back was similar to his role now. And it was just really cool how he did all that. But one of the things that really stuck out to me, and I just remember is when he said on Friday afternoons, I love to just let my team go.

And then I sit at the desk, the front desk, and I just welcome, if anybody hasn't quite, I just take over that role. But to say, I'm going to do that because that's leadership and what a great servant leader example, we talk about servant leadership, but to see that example with him, it didn't surprise me cause I know him.

But to hear that, so w what did, I mean, those type ideas and to hear those different things, and as a coach, how are you able to model those similar type things in your [00:31:00] job? And what did you think of that from Rick first?

Paul: [00:31:02] Yeah. To go back real quick, just not to, not to drop off it or stay too long on the playing out a position thing, but I had a quote from Matt that I wrote down.

Actually it said playing out a position or covering for one another to accomplish long-term vision, you have to adapt to be flexible. And you kind of said that, but I think the reason for popping in and out is you use the example of you and your wife and, and same for us, especially during COVID roles and responsibilities kind of changed a little bit, but when your long-term vision is the same, it's really easier to pop in and out of those roles and responsibilities, but I think also transitions really well into the conversation with Rick. Is it again, long-term vision what's he trying to accomplish? And what are the things that he needs to do? What's the culture he's trying to establish to achieve as long-term vision with his staff. And I was, I love what he said about, on Friday, letting everybody else go, which for most leaders like, Hey, I'm the leader, you guys all stick around, I'm going home.

And I think that there's, a lot to that. And I don't know him hope to [00:32:00] maybe meet all of your guests in person at some point. Maybe that should be my, my bucket list for 2021 is to meet all of your guests. But I was blown away and I love that. And I know there's times that as a staff that we've let our team go and say, Hey, you guys, you guys leave, take off. We're going to pick up all the equipment today. We're going to put the goals away we're going to do. But after hearing that, like, man, maybe we need to do more of that. You know, maybe we need to be more servant leaders more often and, and commit to that as a group.

So I, I loved what he, what he said there. I thought that was fantastic. And you would hope, and I know this, isn't why he's doing it. But you would think the side effect of that would be, people may be wanting to stay later on a Friday or maybe you've got that one person who's like, Hey, you know what, Rick you've stayed like the last four weeks.

Let, let me stay this time. It's kinda like the. Student athletes, you spend weekly meetings with them and just like, Hey, how are you doing? How are you doing? How are things? How's the family. And you've got that one kid. You're like, Hey coach, how's your family doing? it just really makes an impact.

And I think what Rick has done there with his staff I'm sitting there thinking, man, maybe I should go into admissions and go work for Rick at Georgia Tech. [00:33:00] He's a guy you Want to work for

Phil: [00:33:01] that's the thing. I mean, all these guys are guys that I'd want to play for and want to work for. that's what I said to you.

Like I'd love to play for your, couldn't do it obviously for many reasons, but, but to coach with you to be able to do that, and with these other people, I'd love to work with them, work for them, but that's the beauty of it. And that's what this does. That's what servant leadership does. Right? Because as a leader, and this is the one takeaway that I get from it.

And I think about it, it encourages me and it motivates me as a leader to see that servant leaders get you to do things because you want to do them for them. It's that influence that we talked about. It's the difference of, you know, you could, as a coach, if they're at Baylor, you, they could come in. And you tell them, this is the way it is my way or the highway.

This is how it is when it is. When I say it, when I say jump, you say how high, when I want you to do something, you do it right now, or else you're gone. And, and you're going to pick up everything and you know, [00:34:00] the down the line, right. But here in, you know, with, with Graham talking about the seniors, Eating last, the, the rookies eat first, every time the, and, and I've, I watched it with my daughter.

They, they just spoil and lavish this stuff on the, on the rookies. And it's amazing. What does that make the rookies want to do that makes the rookies want to do whatever they can do to work harder and to be better and to be that person that they're telling them they are. Right. And that is a leader is amazing to be able to see that, but that doesn't just happen by, you know, Leadership by position that happens by leadership by influence.

It happens by leadership by service. And so that, there's one thing I'd love for you to hear. And this is what this goes consistent with. All this servant leaders want to know themselves really well. So they know their flaws, they know their issues because, and that's one thing I heard at one point early on in my leadership when I was listening and I was reading all this stuff and I still do, by the way, I still read all kinds of stuff and listen to all kinds of different things.

[00:35:00] But one of the things was, is it look. Your people want you to tell them and let you let them know that you know, your weaknesses and you know your flaws because they know them. But for them to understand that they know how flawed you are, they know how bad you are, they know your issues, they know your split.

Then they know that you know them and you're aware of them and you're working on them. That gives you so much more credibility with them. So that's something that I just loved it because that servant heart will gain way more credibility. Go into that BLC interview, hearing about Marco BLC coming in and going, Hey guys, we're going to go through this city and we're just going to pick up trash.

We're going to walk these blocks and we're just going to be able to understand who all these people are and we're going to serve them.

Paul: [00:35:45] Yeah, I've found a lot of great, so far I'm early on in that series has been great. But I do know, even just through the podcast, pick, picking up, you talked about the leaders eating last or whatever, and the book, Legacy, sweep the sheds and all those things.

I hadn't heard of that book honestly until the [00:36:00] podcast. So I've grabbed that book. I've started that book. And really curious, because I have heard some of those things about how the leaders are doing more things in the, our culture is very much Servant leadership, but we do give the younger kids some more responsibilities to try to, it's not, they're not earning keep, but they kind of do the hard stuff, but we do make our older kids bring them along.

But that idea of, Hey, You earned the right to do those things as an older person and they're servant leaders and they're doing things to serve the younger ones. So that, that's what they want to do as they go along. That's a, flip, that's a big flip for a lot of cultures, but reading a lot about it and I loved it.

I love the idea of it. I think the next thing is, how do you make that shift to implement it in the middle of something, right? And when you step into something new and you're the new person, you're like, Hey, this is how we're going to do it. But when you find something, some something new that is, could be fantastic.

You hope that your leaders within your program. buy into the same vision and goal. So I'm excited to read through that and navigate that with our team a little bit. Cause I think it's a fantastic idea that fits [00:37:00] actually fits really well into what we believe and what we do, we've just never done it that way, but I've never wanted to be the leader.

Who's like, well, we've never done it that way, so we're not going to do it. I'm always up for trying things that that I think can be a positive impact for our culture. And I think that's one of the things that really we could, benefit from.

Phil: [00:37:16] That's an interesting thing you bring up there. That is really important for a lot of leaders out there because most of these things, when you learn a new idea, when you learn a new thing and you're like, that's a really good idea.

I mean, heck that's what this show is about. Right? It's to learn these new ideas to apply in your leadership, whether you're an organizational leader, whether you're a coach like you are, whether you're both, whether you want to apply these things in your marriage or whatever it is, Those new ideas will come with.

It's not just going to be a flip, the switch and the new ideas implemented. There's going to come with some growing pains. It's going to come with some hurdles. It's going to come with some speed bumps along the way. But if you look at it and you go, this is worth it. And this is something we need in our culture to make our culture better.

[00:38:00] Then it. That transition, that change is getting the people to buy into the change. Again, personalities come into that. Certain personalities embrace change very quickly. Other ones, you have to introduce it very slowly to them and make it over time because they love status quo. but to say that. Every good idea needs to be implemented into your culture in your organization is wrong too.

Because again, some things that Bielsa does won't work at Baylor. Some things that Graham does at Trinity Western won't work at Baylor. And that's okay. And that's right. And that's good. Your culture is your culture, but there, those, like you said, those things would fit into your culture. Absolutely. They would.

But how do you go and talk to your people and say, Hey, you know what? I know that you, as a freshmen had to do this, and now you as a senior might have to do this, but let's have this conversation, is this worth it for us? Do we think this would make us stronger? And will this [00:39:00] teach you lessons by the way that you can take to where you go next?

And you know what, as I've said before, and as I know our goal here is to make you the best person you can be when you leave these

Paul: [00:39:09] doors. Yeah. And I, and I think that, you made a great point too, about, every great idea. Isn't a great idea for you and your, and your culture. And I think if you've got a great idea of what your vision and mission is For your group, for your team, for your whatever. Then, then you've got to filter it through that. Like, Hey, this is a great idea. I've seen a ton of great ideas, but they don't fit with my mission and vision for my team. So I've got to push them off to the side. So you don't grab every great idea, like you just said and try to implement it.

I've seen. Coaches and leaders try to do that. And it is, it's hard because if it doesn't fit into the mission and vision that you're trying to present to your group, then everyone's kind of wondering, okay, what are we really doing here? But I think if it does filter through your mission and vision, that filters through that, and it still fits, then it's worth maybe having a conversation with your group to say, Hey, I'm considering I'm considering this.

This is what this might look like. This is how it fits within the mission and vision of what we're trying to accomplish as a [00:40:00] leadership group. What do you think. and then that's where going back to what we talked about earlier, it's great to have people with different ideas. They don't think like you do, because they're going to say, well, yeah, Paul, I think that, that sounds great.

But did you consider this and you know why it may not work and then talking through that to take this full circle almost on the things that we've talked about. It's important, but again, not grabbing every great idea, but filtering it through what is your mission and vision, and then say, okay, maybe we should try to implement this because it could actually help us get to our mission and vision better than the way we've been doing it before.

Phil: [00:40:32] Yeah, that's interesting. You say that because as you were talking there, I was actually thinking about what you were saying, which is that buy-in from the leadership team to say, not just from top down saying, this is what we're doing, here's the change we're implementing, but to say, Hey, we got this book, take a look at this chapter in Legacy sweep the sheds, read it, let's talk about it.

And then ideally it becomes their idea. great leadership often makes [00:41:00] it so that you make it their idea again, depending on the personalities, but you make it their idea. So they come back to you and say, Hey, coach, we want to implement this. Are you okay with that? And you're like, yeah, let me think about that for a minute.

Yeah. That sounds like a good idea. Right? Great idea. I love that you guys came up with that, but. Where it's too, you can suggest things and to be able to, but to make that's where you really get that buy-in is when it does become their idea. And it does become something that is when they start seeing we, when they start saying this is ours, this is something that is something we are doing together.

Man that's powerful. And then, the beautiful thing about that is they'll own it forever. So as you've seen, I presume at Baylor is if someone played for you 15 years ago, or 10 years ago, or five years ago, they'll come back and say, I'm still part of this program. 

Paul: [00:41:52] you want everybody that comes through the doors, that's, a positive influence at least to feel like when they walk out that they've left their fingerprints.

and that they can look back and go, [00:42:00] yeah. That, that's part of something I left. our quote unquote booster club, whatever you want to call it, we call it Legacy. because we feel like whether they're giving financially or not everybody who walks through our doors is leaving a legacy.

to your point. I want the girls that come through our program to feel like, and we talk about it a lot. As part of our culture is what is the legacy you want to leave? What is the legacy you're stepping into? You came here for a reason. There's something about this culture that you like, but now it's up to you to now.

Make that culture better or make it, you know, at least not make it worse, but get your fingerprints on this thing. And how do you want to leave your legacy as you walk out of here into the real world and still look back and say, Hey, yeah, I was a big part of that and that you're right. I think, especially, I don't know how that is in the corporate world as much when people leave, usually they're gone, but I do think with a football program, a soccer program, That very much is.

That's why we do alumni events, right? I mean, that's why people want to stay connected. And I think that them having their fingerprints on it and coming up with there are plenty of things That we're doing or have done [00:43:00] here with our culture that weren't our ideas. They were student led, but they were their ideas because they're filtering it through what is the mission and vision that we're trying to accomplish here?

What's the legacy that I want to leave at some point when I'm gone, whether that's, you know, when God decides I'm, I'm done at Baylor cause it's not going to be me walking out the door on my own. what is it? what legacy have I left? And I think the players coming up with those ideas.

Sometimes, if they're pushed by us also, but there's a lot more buy-in and I tell our, our leadership group all the time there's certain things, does it need to be communicated to the team and sometimes it's best coming from the leaders, Hey coach, you should mention this because we need to get, Oh, no, no, no.

That's a great idea. You need to communicate that because I'm just the coach barking out commands. When it comes from within the culture, you're going to have a much better buy-in to, to that. And I think those are some Important things. We talked a little bit about some of the leadership stuff, and I had a quote from Roberto Manzini.

He said, I never liked the leadership where the boys say, he's my leader. I have to respect them. I prefer them to say I [00:44:00] respect him. And he's my leader. I think that kind of goes back to that culture. And the things that we're implementing as, as leaders I really liked what he said there and kind of goes into a lot of what we've been talking about here with culture.

Phil: [00:44:12] Man. There's so much more we could talk about, but we're going we're, we're coming up on an hour here. So, which is not surprise me because you and I can talk. And, and you, and I have thought about these things a lot, which is why I love having you where this isn't the last we're going to hear from you, we're going to have, we're going to have to these, we're going to get to have these conversations regularly, which is fantastic.

But I do want to finish up today. and there's so much, you just said that I want to comment on, but I am, I am, I can show restraint folks and I am right now. but I do want to finish up with, I loved your answer by the way to this, but the question that I ask, most of the guests is how do you implement what you've learned from the game into your life, into your marriage, into your parenting, into the other relationships you have. [00:45:00] And the guests in the last half of this season gave some phenomenal answers as I expected. Cause I know them as humans, but. without going into each of them.

And if you need me to remind you of their answers, I can hopefully do it for them, but I don't think I have to because you listen to them. And I just want to hear from you on, whatever your favorite one or two of those ideas  and which one do you think you might implement into your family if you're not already.

Paul: [00:45:25] Well, I've got to say, I think it's been a really cool question that you're asking folks. Cause I don't know before coming on your podcast, I don't know that I've ever really thought about it. It's things that we do. And when you asked me I had one but it's amazing to hear how everybody's kind of able to equate that, but I've got to say Phil, the one that I've actually really implemented.

In my household is your's. That retaliation gets the red that's born. And maybe that's just where we are as a family right now having, 10, eight, six, and a four year old. and them understanding the game a little bit more too, is it like, man, like. I know what just happened, but the [00:46:00] retaliation piece is something we've got to work on in our house.

So if I'm being honest about what I'm actually implementing, it's that, but I have been really impressed with some of the answers that some of the folks that have given as they relate to their children, as they relate to their marriage how the game really has made a massive impact on their lives.

Phil: [00:46:19] and I'll say I, I asked the question, knowing the two that I, that really stick out to me that I remember, well are side before self, that Mark just said, which is something that we talk about all, we're a team. it's not about you.

Paul: [00:46:35] And, and that was the Leeds mantra too, right?

isn't that right.

Phil: [00:46:38] Leeds, which is, you know, it's not just leads. They took that from a bunch of other organizations. Sure.

Paul: [00:46:43] They didn't invent those words, I guess that wasn't, they didn't invent that

Phil: [00:46:46] as far as I know, I haven't gone to the origins of the statement, but I don't think that Leeds invented that.

 if any of you folks out there know, please let us know. We'll, we'll put that in the show notes, but The one that, [00:47:00] that really I loved was Rick's where he says touch the line. Right. It's simple. We all know that, but what it does, I love it because as a coach and you know, this, when someone cuts a corner, it just kind of rubs you the wrong way.

Or at least me, I got it. I got

Paul: [00:47:17] sell you a story on that because I think as coaches, the coaches that are listening can understand this in preseason this year our video crew came out and did a video of a fitness thing that we did. And of course they're getting all artistic and they zoom in on the feet on the line and I didn't get to review it because if it had been, if I got to review it, I would have cut this clip because basically it showed one of the girls not touching the line.

Well, Do you think that I had alumni reach out to me? Oh yeah. I had at least 10 alumni reach out to me and go coach, who was that? Who didn't touch the line. And it was a big deal. I mean, it was funny, but it is it's to that point it's is a big deal. And I thought that's a, it was a great thing. Touch the line.

[00:48:00] Like if you're going to do it, do it your best, do it all the

Phil: [00:48:02] way. That's right. and as a coach, you see that, you know, who touches the line, you, and that's what Rick was saying. And I loved it. And as a boss, he knows who touches the line, obviously proverbially, but who does the extra thing? It's not even the extra thing, that's just the job, That's the basic bare minimum to have excellence of doing the job. Right. and that is something that is, is often lost because very few hold people accountable to that, and if you don't do it, run another one and do it right this time, touch the line this time.

 that was something that I, and I loved it with his knee, his daughter, I think she said she was nine. That it's like, Hey. Touch the line when, when she didn't take her shirt upstairs or whatever, he's touched the line and she just like, all right, I can, I can just imagine, the kid.

Okay. But what, but what are his kids going to do when their coach tells them to touch the line later on, they're going to touch the line, Or they'll know that they're not doing it and that's, I love it because we can instill these principles in, and it's something [00:49:00] that. We can watch our kids too and instill these principles.

And so that's what I love about the question is, these are things that, as you said, we know of intuitively, but we don't necessarily actually apply them. And what great things we can learn from each other. And these are simple things we can implement into our families, into our marriages, into our different things that we're doing.

And that was something that I loved hearing from the different people. As we tie this episode up any last little things that you want to talk about, anything you're excited for, maybe for the next season, any things that you'd want to see any people that you'd want to get on. And then that would actually force me to actually get them on put me on the spot right now, man.

Paul: [00:49:40] listen. I'm just, I'm I'm thankful that you brought me into this, kind of from the beginning just only because I was one of your, well, I guess your first guest been here from the beginning of it, and I've just really enjoyed watching this.

go along and being more part of it. Now I appreciate it, but I can say I am genuinely excited to see who you're going to bring on and just the ideas. And I think [00:50:00] as it was proven for me and my skepticism before listening to Mark man, what an awesome, I think when you introduced me and some of the other ones, like, Hey, tell no, nobody here probably even knows who you are.

Well, so tell us about yourself. I think that's just an important thing to all of these is for us to realize whoever's on the show. They've got something To contribute and for us as leaders to open our minds and our ears to, to what others have to say. And I think for me, that's what I'm most excited about as we kind of go through whoever it is that you're bringing to the table over these next couple of weeks.

I'm just excited to tune in and listen and absorb and talk again about it.

Phil: [00:50:36] Yeah. So season two is gonna kick off next week, actually. And so we, we have some great guests as we have, but again we haven't filled out the slate for season two yet. So I'd love to hear from you on some guests that and maybe yourself.

If you have, as you just said, Paul and I, 100% agree. Everyone has something to add. if this is a game you played, if this [00:51:00] is something that you think about and if you're a leader and as we have said, everybody is a leader. And so I would love to hear from you on your ideas.

In fact, I just got an email from a guy who wrote a book about baseball and he goes, I know this isn't the same sport, but it may be something we can learn. And so I'm going to have a conversation with him to go, Hey, if I think this is something we can learn from, I'm going to bring it to you. I've had a basketball coach who said.

You know who said this, this may be something so just don't think, Oh, it's not soccer. Therefore I think we've established, this is a soccer podcast, but there are many lessons we can learn from other games, other sports that are very similar to the beautiful game. It's just, they're just not as

Paul: [00:51:38] beautiful.

Yeah. So I would even say just to encourage your listeners to, I I've done this and I've just heard there folks that are leaders in my community that I, I very much value. And I've said, Hey, you really should listen to this podcast. Even though they're not soccer people. I said, you're going to get a lot out of it.

And they don't hate the game, so that they'll be okay with some of the soccer chatter. But I I've encouraged and I would encourage your listeners to, Hey, pass this on to somebody that you [00:52:00] feel is a leader. Let them decide whether they get anything out of it or not, but that's how this thing can really.

And it's not to take off or whatever, but it's more about how, how can we impact other leaders and don't hesitate as a soccer person to share this with someone who's not a soccer person, because I do think there's as, just as you may bring in some non soccer people on the show, I think that we need to push this to some who are not necessarily soccer people, but leaders in our community that could really benefit from some of the wisdom that you've brought to the show.

Phil.

Phil: [00:52:27] Absolutely. and I echo that and say, listen, Share it with people because if it's helping you and I hope it is, and I hope that this is something that's really helping you then it will likely help other people too. And if you're, especially, if you're thinking it might help them, it probably will.

And so that's what we want to do. We really want to encourage people to be able to learn from this and so that we can all be better. Be better coaches, be better humans, in every way, better in our marriages, better in our parenting, better in our leadership, in our communities. And so [00:53:00] on that note I do want to mention that Paul and his wife, Marci Jobson have, if you go to jobsonsoccer.com, check it out, they have a great thing they're launching this spring called Warrior Way. And Marci has some videos on social media that you can check out. And, I know Paul is a bit biased. But he'll tell you that, you know, she's awesome. And she is. and you already know Paul, so if you're in that Waco, Texas area definitely be checking that out.

do have online stuff as well. Paul.

Paul: [00:53:30] We tried to kick something off during COVID and it just didn't with our, with our COVID experience, didn't happen, but we are putting some things together from an online perspective. And I appreciate you talking about that, but if you don't know Marci if you do know more, so you do know that if you hear her speak or talk or share a vision or passion and you don't get excited about it, you probably need check your heart and check your head because there's nobody.

That I know that's really more motivating than Marci. Yes, I'm biased. But I knew that before I married her too. So she sold me on all of it. [00:54:00] Just kidding. But she, yeah, fantastic stuff that she's doing. God's leading her in some really, really special ways. To influence the young people in our community.

So we're really excited about seeing what God's going to do through that.

Phil: [00:54:11] Yeah. And we'll talk about that more as we go along here and as it gets going, I'm excited to, to see even ways that we can partner. And if you have an idea that you want to just. connect with, with Paul on just send an email to that email address and I'll make sure Paul gets it.

So again, without more from us today on  the meat of it not that it's not meat, but I definitely, as I said, In the beginning, subscribe to the show if you haven't done so already, if it's something that you're learning from, so you don't miss any episodes rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts and connect with us via email or on Facebook.

We have a Facebook group, Facebook page, Instagram, Twitter, wherever you're at. you can find us LinkedIn as well, but with it, all, the important thing we want is that you're learning from it. You're growing from it. And I, I do hope you also share it with other people, not just so they can learn from it, but you can talk about these things as well with your leadership team.

[00:55:00] Again, if DISC is something you want to learn more about, you can drop me an email and I'd love to talk with you about that. And I'll repeat the offer. If you didn't hear it earlier I'll give you,   assessments and reports, and I'll walk through it with you and share with you how I think it could help your team if you're a coach.

Okay. And if you're in an organization to be able to help your leadership team as well. Cause I have no doubt it will. If it's not something that you've already done. And even if it is, I'd still love to talk to you about how you can apply it and use it better and more so with all that folks. Thanks a lot again for your download.

Thanks for joining us. Paul, I'm so excited for you to be joining the team officially and not just, not just a guest. but you're now part of this team and I love that. And I've been grown to very, very much respect you and, Today did not lessen that at all. So that's good.

That's a win, right?

Paul: [00:55:49] Well, that's a win. Well, I appreciate that Phil. I appreciate again, you had me on a ton of respect for you as well, and the things that you're doing in this world and this podcast is an exciting thing. So I'm hoping not to [00:56:00] downgrade hopefully people aren't dropping off subscriptions as we speak, but yet highly encouraged.

Everybody to sign up and subscribe and get involved in the community. Cause I think there's some really special things going on here, Phil, that you're doing and pumped to be part of it. So looking forward to what's coming here in season two.

Phil: [00:56:15] Absolutely. Well, as you said, Paul, at the beginning, we set the bar pretty low, so it's not that hard to get it now.

I'm just kidding. No, it's. I I'm a little nervous cause we set the bar pretty high this season.  but I'm excited to hit that and to really strive for it cause that's what we're teaching here and that's what we're hopefully getting there out there is to strive for that. as I've heard, I think it was Vince Lombardi, strive for perfection and you just might hit excellence.

And that's what we're doing on the show. And that's what we want. We know your time is valuable and we don't want to waste a minute of it. So with that folks, I do hope. And I pray that you're taking all that you're learning from this show that you're learning from what you're reading and what you're watching, and you're using it to help you to become a better leader. And hopefully you can really start thinking more and more about how these [00:57:00] life and leadership principles really do come out of the beautiful game. Thanks a lot. Have a great week.