Sept. 1, 2022

What’s the Point of Youth Sports? - The Lost Episodes of Coaching Character Podcast, Volume 9, with Phil DuBois, Former Washington Redskins Tight End

What’s the Point of Youth Sports? - The Lost Episodes of Coaching Character Podcast, Volume 9, with Phil DuBois, Former Washington Redskins Tight End

In Episode 97 and other episodes this summer, we are taking a break from our normal programming to share with you some unreleased episodes from the Coaching Character Podcast, which Phil recorded with Coach Roz, who played football for the Oakland...

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In Episode 97 and other episodes this summer, we are taking a break from our normal programming to share with you some unreleased episodes from the Coaching Character Podcast, which Phil recorded with Coach Roz, who played football for the Oakland Raiders and San Diego State, and now runs The Playmakers, which works with at-risk and developmentally different children. This is great content that we wanted to ensure got the airtime it deserves. In this episode, Coach Roz and Phil talk with Phil DuBois, Former Tight End with the Washington Redskins and San Diego State Aztecs, about the purpose of youth sports, how we can coach with more intentionality, and other important topics.

Resources and Links from this Episode


Phil Darke: Welcome back to how soccer explains leadership. I'm Phil dark, your host, and my cohost, Paul Jobson and I absolutely love doing what we get to do. We get to bring you great content, great interviews with great people from the world of soccer every But if you've been listening this summer, you know, we're taking a little break from our normal programming this summer to bring you the last episodes of the coaching character podcast.

And today is one of the last two that we're going to do over the course of this summer, this week, we are bringing to you a conversation that I had with my co-host on that, on that podcast, coaching character, coach Roz. We had a conversation with one of his former teammates at San Diego state, a man who ended up playing for the Washington Redskins, his name's Phil DuBois.

And he has some really great things to talk with us about. He talked with us. About, you know, what are the real purpose of use sports. He talked with us about, you know, [00:01:00] how to get the best of our out of our athletes and some other really important things that I have no doubt you're going to learn from that. You're going to hopefully be able to be better in all that you do after you listen to this conversation.

And that's what we love doing on this show is to help To be better. You know, I'm excited because these episodes. Otherwise would never have seen the light of day. They'd never would have been able to be heard if we didn't get to do this this summer. So I'm glad we're able to do this. I hope you are too. I hope you learn from this. What I, you know, as much as I learned from

Uh, this conversation that we were able to have with Phil the boys.

And as I said, this is one of the last two episodes that we're bringing to you this summer of the last episodes of the coaching character podcast. That is because we have some other new episodes that are coming your Starting on the third Thursday. Of September. So that's when we're going to be bringing back at you, the, the new episodes, the new season of how [00:02:00] soccer explains leadership.

Until then. I hope you enjoy these last two episodes of the coaching character podcast that we're going to bring to you. They are the last episodes that were ever recorded of the coaching character podcast. And so here it goes today. our conversation that we had with phil Dubois.

[00:02:17] Coach Roz: Welcome to coaching character. I'm coach Roz, along with my partner in crime. Phil Darke and Phil. Welcome back from while I, while you were lollygagging in Southern California, working on your tan. I was working here securing another great interview, and I'm pretty excited to introduce a good friend of mine, former Aztec, Phil Dubois.

So let's kick this thing off.

[00:02:40] Phil Darke: Yeah, I, I'm excited to get another fill in here. Typically Phil's have some wisdom to share with us as you can see, if you're watching on the video, I did not work very hard on the tan because it's still not there. So, but you know, that's all right. That's all right. So Phil, welcome to coaching character.

We're very, as, as[00:03:00] Greg coach Roz said, we are very excited to have you on today. How are you

[00:03:04] Phil DuBois: doing? I'm doing great, Phil. It's great to be here. How are you folks doing

[00:03:10] Coach Roz: well? We're, we're surviving. It's 20 degrees cooler where we are as you know, than where you are. And again, Phil dark is so obvious that you are still on vacation mode.

You are like you, you are just, you're still in Southern California. You gotta, you gotta lock in pal.

[00:03:28] Phil DuBois: I almost got your name

[00:03:29] Coach Roz: wrong. I know it. You, yeah. Let's see. What now? What podcast are you doing? Who's your co come on, man. You gotta lock in. This is serious up here.

[00:03:38] Phil DuBois: The

[00:03:38] Phil Darke: really scary thing is I didn't even know who I was talking to.

I didn't even have name in mind.

[00:03:42] Coach Roz: It just was the wrong name. I know what it is. I know what it is this first time you are totally intimidated that you've got two Aztecs on the show that you are, you are dumbstruck.

[00:03:53] Phil Darke: That is actually very, very true. That is very true. I, I just don't even know what to do. Especi, you know, this is a guy you [00:04:00] threw to presumably in, in college.

Well, in

[00:04:02] Coach Roz: practice, he actually threw it between his legs. To me more. He was the long snapper. I was the punter. We'll get into that

[00:04:08] Phil Darke: a whole lot later. Yeah. But anyway, we're we will get into it and I am locked in. We are ready to go. Don't don't think anything less than that. So, you know, speaking of your, your story, Phil, this is one, always one of my favorite things to do on any podcast that I do, which is.

Just hear stories and hear how you got to be where you are today. So can you just share that with our audience, share that with, with us here, just, you know, how you got to be, you know, you did, as, as Greg said, you did play in the NFL. You did play at San Diego state. And now you're doing some great things as well.

You've been a coach for many years as well. So can you just share how you. To be who you are today. And before, before

[00:04:47] Coach Roz: he gets going, I'm gonna interrupt him already because he rather be whipped with a bicycle chain than talk about himself. And I mean that sincerely, so I'm gonna know I'm gonna have to continue to pull things out of him.

Oh yeah. Talk about, you forgot [00:05:00] about the being drafted and base, that kind of stuff. So. Sure. So Phil, tell us, tell

[00:05:06] Phil DuBois: us about you. Would you, well, it sounds like you want to tell my story. Now Yeah. I mean, I went to high school in Southern California, played three sports went to a junior college CDO junior college before playing for the Aztecs.

And, and, and before we get into anything real serious, you were talking about how many passes ROS through in college. And I, I believe if you look at the statistics, I probably threw more passes in games than he. We

[00:05:35] Coach Roz: don't have time filled. This is a very short

[00:05:39] Phil DuBois: is, well, I thought that was good to pass

[00:05:43] Phil Darke: along that St.

[00:05:47] Phil DuBois: Liked, yeah. Had a half pass that I threw a few 10, so think anyway, anyway I, and you know, obviously Greg and I met we both came out of a junior college. [00:06:00] Both went to San Diego state. I, I, I didn't get drafted. I signed as a free agent with a Redskins played for a couple years. And after my plane days I, I did kind of drift around for a while.

I mean, it, it's, it's hard to play at that level and then try to figure out what you want to do and, and. I, I, I moved around a little bit and it, it, it just seemed whatever I was doing. I always gravitated back to working with kids. I, I worked in a kid's shelter. I worked in an organization, Montana, a mental health organization, working with kids and young adults.

So no matter what I've done. Other than working with kids. It always came back to working with kids. And, you know, currently I am not doing [00:07:00] that because of what's going on with COVID, but I, I, I still study. I'm a, I'm a certified speed and strength coach. So I, I still do a lot of study work with that kind of

[00:07:14] Phil Darke: thing.

That's great. And can you just share a little bit about that, just that, that speed and strength coaching that you do, any other coaching that you have been able to do? Can you just share a little bit more about that and, and what that is, what that looks like? When you're actually,

[00:07:28] Phil DuBois: well, in, in, in the past, I I've, I've worked with mostly youth, some high school teams in, in multiple sports and in multiple states, I've done it, Virginia.

I've done it Montana. And I've done it here in California. I, I got certified a, a few years ago, but I, I almost exclusively work with high school and under it, it it's, it's tough to get into the college ranks and most colleges have their own [00:08:00] strength coaches anyway, so it doesn't make no sense try to interfere with that.

So I, I. I, I, I do. I've done a lot of work with high school athletes.

[00:08:11] Coach Roz: Yeah. Phil, if I, if I can ask you and, and you and I have spent hours talking about this, and this is a broad brush question. What is systemically wrong with what is going on? Let let's just say youth sports and sports at the lower level.

And again, I know that's a broad brush, but, but there are just things that are systemically wrong, that we have an opportunity to to dig into. Talk about that a little bit, if you will.

[00:08:40] Phil DuBois: Well, one, one of my things.

I was an English lit major in college. So I, I read a lot. Mark Twain once said that the two most important days in our life were the day were born. And the day we find out why. Now through trial and [00:09:00] error, I I've found out why. And it's working with with young athletes. And as, as I've seen, you know, Greg and I have gone to RO and I have gone to a lot of practices together.

I've been to practices in Virginia, but Montana, California. And so I think it's pretty much the same across the country, most coaches and, and believe me, there are some really good youth coaches, but I think the problem is. Most coaches spend 90% of their practice, time running plays. And it's not really teaching the kids anything about football.

It's, you know, they spend so much time trying to perfect the, the perfect place for a game. and I think that has more to do [00:10:00] with wanting to win than anything else. And, and that's on the coaches. And you, you know, I always like to say that winning should be the fruit of our efforts and not the focus of our efforts.

[00:10:16] Phil Darke: Yeah, absolutely. And on that, on that note, you know, as we, as you talked about, I mean, in the context of, obviously that was a question about what is wrong with you, sports. I think one of those things to draw out of that, that I, that I heard you saying and correct me if I'm wrong, but is really that we're focusing.

Not on the, the game itself, as far as what, what the game can teach us. We're not focusing on the, what we can train up and teach in the kids about life, about how this game is teaching them leadership skills, integrity, character, things that they can learn from it. But we're just focusing on those plays because.

At the end of the day, really what we're focusing on is what's gonna get us that, that tick in the wind column. And [00:11:00] at the expense of a whole lot of other things is, is that what I'm hearing you saying, first of all, then I'll get to

[00:11:04] Phil DuBois: the actual question. Oh, oh basically that at, at the expense of everything else you know, I've gone back and forth and there's been a lot written about this.

What is the true purpose of youth sports? And like I said, and if you look at the statistics and, and this was six months ago that I looked at it, I don't look at it every day, but approximately 75% of K kids by the age of 13 will not be playing organized sports. At that age. I mean, they drift onto other interests.

A lot of 'em play because their dad wants them to play. So if, if we've only got 'em for that short period of time, what can we teach them in those moments that they can use beyond that age? And, and [00:12:00] that's, that's been, I. Think about all the time, right? It it's not about the game itself because I don't really remember.

And, and some people do some people don't. I remember very little about my actual on field experiences when I was 10 years old, but I do remember the coaches. And, you know, some were good. Some were bad. Some taught me things, some didn't, but it, it, it intrigues me that

for instance, I had a coach come up to me a few years ago. He hands me a playbook. He says, what do you think of this? And these are eight and 10 year old kids. This playbook was 40 pages. Says, what do you think? I, I, I took it. I, and I happened to be near a [00:13:00] trashcan. I threw it in the trash. I said, that's what I think.

You, you know, again, we, we have an hour, hour and a half at practice and these coaches are doing nothing but run in plays. Yeah, and we lose so many opportunities to field the court, wherever they're playing, whatever the sport they're playing gives us as coaches, such an opportunity to teach these kids something other than a game.

And while there are some coaches who are good with that. I know, Raz likes to take time at the end of practice and, and do things, but most coaches don't understand those concepts.

[00:13:45] Phil Darke: Yeah. You know, and, and so I would ask kind to follow up on that. What, what would be some of the ways that you can actually.

Incorporate the things that are, that will last, the things that do are meaningful, the things that are as we, this, [00:14:00] obviously this is called the coaching character podcast. So what are those ways that we can actually teach and train up that character in those, in the kids that we have the, the privilege to be able to spend time with.

[00:14:14] Coach Roz: So, so Phil, to drill into his question a little bit, cuz you were talking about teachable moments.

Rather than running a play, putting on spot a little bit. Can you give me an example, a coaching point of something that you can do on the field in a short period of time that has lifelong or lasting impact

[00:14:37] Phil DuBois: the there's S moments at every practice. If you took the time? I, I I've spent a lot of time.

I've written some stuff. It, the title I have right now are kids of a lesser talent. The, the, you know, what do we do with the kids who in a coach's mind [00:15:00] aren't essential to the team winning games? You know, cause I, I, I always thought the, the, the, the best marker for me, Of a kid having a good experience and learning something during a football season was that he wanted to come back again and play next year.

And a lot of them don't because of that. But I, I think if we took time, I, I I'm writing a, a, a, a book about you sports. One of my, one of my chapters is learning how to learn. You know, as most of us know, we all learn in different ways and you, you can teach, you can take kids. First of all, when I, when I get a team, I have, 'em all I'll fill out a form.

Part of that form is about the sport itself. Part of that form is [00:16:00] what are your favorite classes in school? Do you have any hobbies or other interests? Because seriously, some of these kids probably shouldn't even be playing football and we all know the reason why they are playing. It's not to please themselves.

It's to please somebody else. So I, I think teachable moments, you can't have a teachable moment unless you know, the person you're trying to teach. And that's why I, I, I like to, you know, RO and I went to a practice last year where we said, well, let's take this group over here because they're second team players and let's teach 'em how to block or let's, you know, what whatev whatever it is, otherwise, they're just standing there watching the first team run plays.

There are so many. Environments, we can put these kids into to learn [00:17:00] something. And in the process, I think they're learning how to learn.

[00:17:08] Phil Darke: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that's a huge, I mean, heck that's something in, in all areas of life, right? Yes. I was at law school. The one of my professors said, my job is not to teach you the law.

My job is to teach you to learn the law exactly anywhere you are in the, in, in the world, you can learn whatever you need to know, because I can't possibly teach you everything. And so that, and that goes for everything that we do,

[00:17:33] Phil DuBois: you know, and that, and that's exactly my. I feel if, if, if we can teach these kids a learning process,

the game itself almost becomes irrelevant because like I said, Mo most of the, and believe me, I love sports. I, yeah, I've been in sports all my life, but for so many of these kids, [00:18:00] Again, after the age of 13, you know, they may go out and play flag football with their friends or something. But as far as organized sports, they they've lost interest.

[00:18:09] Coach Roz: Yeah. You know? Sincerely feeling like I'm a little bit on hallowed ground right now. Cause call a time out for just a second. Here's a coach who's talking about primarily two things here. One is kids of a lesser talent. How many coaches are drilling into. Dark. I'm saying I'm calling you dark now, so that it's different than the boys.

I gotcha. How many, how many coaches are drilling into and compassionate and have empathy in a heart for the kids of a lesser talent? I, that just mm-hmm reson. Okay. And a, an intellectual coach who is spending time incorporating how to teach a kid to learn. On the practice field and, and Phil, I'm assuming you're [00:19:00] not talking about how to teach them how to learn a play.

You're talking, talking about how you can implement them, learning to get them through school.

[00:19:09] Phil DuBois: Y yes. the best time I've ever had in youth football, Our team was one and eight. We, we had a bunch of 10 year olds. We went to a draft and, and, and Raza was when Glen and I were coaching. And I don't know why they have drafts for eight and 10 year olds, but, you know, that's the way the organization was run.

It's another show for another day. yeah. and we stood there and watched, and, you know, the, the director of the sports organization came up to and said, well, who are you guys interested in? And Glen and I looked at each other, we said, just give us the people nobody wants. And we took that team and obviously athletically, we weren't very good.[00:20:00]

w we got annihilated by a team in a scrimmage. The first week of the season, we won one game the whole year, the last week of the season, we lost to that same team by six points. Mm wow. And we, they had the ball, they were like four yards from the goal line. They had a first down, they were up by. This it's another thing.

They were up by 20 points. They had a minute left, three timeouts. They used them all. They, they wanted to score again. I mean, the game was open. Well, we ended up with a goal line stand with this team and these kids were so proud of themselves. We lost, but they, they held this team from getting four yard. I mean, [00:21:00] that's the kind of thing that kids take can take away from an experience like that.

They don't remember that we were one in nine. They remember that they held the best team in the league for four downs with 20 seconds left in the game. It, it it's, to me, it's not about the sport.

And it can't be because we lose so many of them, like I said, after certain age, right.

[00:21:28] Phil Darke: It reminds me of a conversation. I was just having the other day actually two conversations over the last week, my senior in high school, he's looking to go to, to college, to play soccer and. And both, like we had two conversations.

One was the former premier league soccer player who played premier league back in the day with NASL. He played at the highest levels for about 15, 20 years. He was one of the first black players in the English first division, a legend. He was the Bermuda national team coach. And he's talking to my son about playing in the college.

And the [00:22:00] first thing he says to him is make sure you get your education. And the other coach of the team that he's likely gonna be playing for next year said the exact same thing. He said, education is always number one on our team. And, and it's, it just, it goes to what he said was the reason for it was, as you said, whether it's 13 years old, 20 years old, 30 years old, if you're a few of these players, 45 years old, but that's the obviously exception.

There will be life after. Yes. And, and also one of the things that was interesting to say is, even if you do end up playing professionally, these teams, know if you have an education, they're gonna have to give you more money, more time. And, and they know that, you know what you're doing. So it goes to not just education school, but education in life.

And, and I look at this and it, it reminds me of another thing. And I, I had actually posted this the other day. I watched remember the Titans during the [00:23:00] Thanksgiving break, which we're just coming off of now. , you know, one of the best movies of all time. Ah, I agree. And, and it, that movie is not about football.

No. Right. And, and that is just such an amazing movie that look at the life lessons those kids learned. And really, I mean, obviously it's Hollywood eyes, but in a three day camp, or actually it was a two week camp, but they went away for two weeks. They learned more life lessons in those two weeks than they probably learned in all of their high.

Oh, I agree. And just amazing. And so that is the power of sport because I believe the kids see their coaches as very wise. In life. So as we've said on this, on this show, and it is interesting to me too, as an aside, that the teams, almost every guest we've had, you don't know this obviously has said the best year, their most [00:24:00] memorable year was a oh and 10 oh and nine one in nine, whatever.

But it's these times, because you're, as we say, you learn more when you lose than when you win. Not to say we're gonna go out there and try to lose. Yeah. But that's the stuff that I look at and go. We have an opportunity and a privilege to speak into the lives. And I think, especially in sport, because I do believe that kids look up to their coaches, whether they voice that or not in the practices, they look up to their coaches, not just for football knowledge, soccer, knowledge, baseball, knowledge, whatever it is, but for life lessons and life knowledge.

So you as a coach have the opportunity to be a positive influence in that regard or a negative influence in that regard, I. Strongly it's it's rarely if ever a neutral influence in that regard.

[00:24:49] Phil DuBois: I've actually written a small article entitled, positive or negative. Impacts, what are we teaching our kids? [00:25:00] And it, it, it isn't about it. It, it is about the coach. Yeah. And the coach has the power and the ability to influence them one way or the other. and, and it's just been my experience.

I I've just seen too many coaches at the youth level who were so consumed with winning that I, I, I, I, I would rather, there were coaches who won a lot that I wouldn't want my kid to be on that. Yeah,

[00:25:45] Coach Roz: that, and, and that is such a, a systemic problem. I mean, that's all over the country and it's, it's certainly not unique to football.

I mean, it's sports, you know, sports across the country.

[00:25:59] Phil DuBois: [00:26:00] Well, it's about building a, a successful culture in your organization. And, and to do that, You, I mean, you, you need everybody to buy in. You need the coaches to buy in. You need the parents buy in and you need the sports organization itself to buy in now.

And you need them all to understand that, you know, yes, we're gonna win our games, but this isn't about making the playoffs. This is creating, you know, I don't know if you've read any of Tony Dungy stuff, but he, he, he, he, he. He, he does a lot on how to, you know, developing winning cultures and, and, and building, building champions.

I actually have put together a, a little program that I'm gonna talk to Ross about, you know, privately it's about creating an elite athletes [00:27:00] club. And, and, and some of the, some of the things involved in this as far as membership, you know, some of the factors are, some of 'em are progress on the field of play.

It, it doesn't mean it's not about winning and losing. It's about if, if they're actually learning something. And, you know, some of the factors are GPA in school and you know, other school related subjects, some, some of the factors are, you know, any kind of community involvement they might be into. And some of the factors are, you know, are they helping with any kind of mentoring processes?

Yes. So I, I think there's things we can do. And provide these kids with some kind of direction. So they know that this isn't just about football. This is just about baseball. This isn't just about [00:28:00]basketball

[00:28:01] Coach Roz: that that what you just are talking about there resonates with both bill and I, because what I'm hearing you say is it's using your sport for an impact that is greater than just what's on the field.

[00:28:18] Phil DuBois: Well, we always want to try to be involved in something bigger than ourselves. I mean, I, I do anyways and, and I think that's part of the whole point is, you know, there's such a great opportunity in sports to. To be involved in something bigger than ourselves.

And, and I think there's this far too many coaches who don't understand that concept.

[00:28:49] Coach Roz: So RA Phil in the time that we have remaining ramble on that for just a bit what amount of impact do we, to what degree are we maximizing? The impact that we [00:29:00] have as. I'll say youth coach, but just as a coach in general,

[00:29:06] Phil DuBois: repeat that question, please.

[00:29:08] Coach Roz: How, how, what degree, how, how are we doing in maximizing our impact?

[00:29:15] Phil DuBois: Well, from, from what I've seen, and like I said, I've done this in three different states. I, I, I would give us a C minus And, and, and it's not, it's not that the coaches don't care. I mean, you know, RA we both read airmen. It's not about the Xs and O's, it's about the Ys.

Why are we coaching? And it is hard to get volunteer coaches in youth sports. And, you know, I've seen a lot of coaches who. You know, we like to say, or in their,

you know, their fifth year, first year coaching [00:30:00] and they don't they're there maybe because there's some plays on the team, they couldn't get anybody else, but I, I don't think we're doing a very good job. Well, and,

[00:30:10] Coach Roz: and you said something where you said, I don't think that it's, they don't care. Would it be safe to say that most of them it's not that they don't care it's that they're not equipped to, to mentor and develop character and make lifelong impact in a positive manner.

[00:30:30] Phil DuBois: Yeah. And I think maybe at some point they both go hand in hand. They don't know what, what resources are out there. I mean, I, I know, I know. Most youth sports organizations I've been involved with. They, you know, they have, you know, they have a committee and they have coaches meetings and, and maybe that's who needs to be touched, not the coaches themselves, but the sports organizations who, who, [00:31:00] you know, select the commissioner of coaches.

and, and, and you know, all the other things that have to do with the, with the club itself I, I just, I haven't seen enough out there to say that things look pretty good.

[00:31:21] Phil Darke: How do, how do you think, you know, you talked about P you talk about success and really the success measures that we have right now, pretty much.

Did you win? When it comes to, especially when you get to high school coaching that's why people are getting hired and fired. Are you winning? Yeah. Not what kind of kids are you developing? Not what are those kids doing in five years? Not are those kids, husbands and wives and fathers and mothers, and that that's not the success measure, right?

It, it should be, but in my opinion, but. But how do we change that paradigm? How do we change that and shift that culture that we currently have [00:32:00] to what we're talking about here. And, and is that, I mean, do you, do you feel that's possible in our, in the, in our current, in our current culture, in our current you know, structure that we have in the way that our leagues and everything are, are designed.

[00:32:21] Phil DuBois: That's a heck of a good question. And, and, and it's a very difficult one to answer. I, I don't know. I, I mean, you're right. We, we are designed in not just in sports, but in, in anything we undertake. It, it, it's always, there's a winner and there's a loser and, and you know, the word loser has so many negative connotations.

You could lose by one point. And, and it's like, well, second place is the first loser. You, you, you hear all this kind of stuff. [00:33:00] And, and I think, I think it, it has to start at the top. You know, so many high schools are just breeding grounds for colleges these days. And you, you got, you got coaches trying to pull kids out of districts, you know, to play for their teams.

I I've seen it several times where, oh, I'll give you a fake address in our district. If you come and play for us, I, I don't know how to get around that. But I, I don't think it needs to start at the high school level. Mm-hmm I, I mean, I think if we improve more at the youth level before they get to that point, because like I said, by the high school level, anyways, most of these kids, aren't gonna be playing organized sports.

They're not gonna be playing high school sports and, [00:34:00] you know, Those people, the 75% who aren't gonna be pulled into that kind of thing. I think we're losing a lot of opportunities to teach them one how to learn and two how to have some confidence in themselves. Cuz a lot of these kids who aren't very good in use sports, they carry that with them into the classroom.

I mean, it's just a, a, a non-confidence thing. So I, I don't, I don't know how to fix the high school level. Yeah.

[00:34:41] Phil Darke: I think there's so much we could talk about right now. What were you thinking?

[00:34:45] Coach Roz: Well, I'm, I'll tell you exactly what I'm thinking. First of all, I'm really grateful Phil, that you you've come on and, and you're spending, and we could sit here for yeah.

Days. Right? We're but, but what I'm exactly what I'm thinking is we would love [00:35:00] to have you back. There's there's two subjects that jump out at me here. This you're writing about kids with a lesser talent. We could camp there on an additional session that I hope you'll come back for. And we want to know a great deal more about your, your work research readings and learnings about how do we teach kids to learn on a practice field.

So, I mean, there's two more sessions here that that's what, what I was

[00:35:29] Phil Darke: thinking. No, for sure we can do that. And you know, and we, we will, we will definitely get you back on assuming you're, you're willing and able, but the one thing that really stuck out to me with what you just talked about, there was the idea that we can't just keep.

That this is wrong. This focus is wrong. We have to replace it with something better. Yes. Really easy to criticize and be that critic. Yeah. But what is that re what are we replacing it with? Cause I've been to many coaches meetings in my [00:36:00] years, coaching my kids. I coach high school sports and to get to the meetings there.

And it's not just saying. We gotta stop focusing on winning. We're not gonna have wins. And wases in this league as the eight year olds, we're gonna have just happy faces and happy faces, cuz you're gonna have fun and that's it. Right. You know? Yeah. And you have fun, but the problem is most kids don't have fun playing a sport if they're not good.

Yeah. Right. If your team stinks, if you stink, that's usually not fun. There are ways to make it fun. Like you said, when you're one in nine, but at tip, even if you're one in nine, you need to know how to play the. And you need to be lessons

[00:36:37] Phil DuBois: through that. Right? Well, and that's part of the problem is, you know, we spend too much time in practices, running plays with first team offense, first team defense.

You know, you need to start getting coaches who are willing to [00:37:00] take the guys. I mean, we all, you know, most of these legs, you have to play everybody a certain amount of time and that's fine, but you, you know, if, if you're one of those kids who, who, who has by rule, they have to play you for five minutes. I mean, probably makes you feel like.

So, where do we get that playing time and where do we get those opportunities to learn? And that's in practice, you know, we can take some of these kids, you know, some coaches and take 'em off to the side and teach them something. I mean, who knows? They may end up starting by the end of the year. It it's, we, we, we, we are so focused on winning games.

And it, it, it starts to meet with the sports organizations. I mean, they, they, they they've, they've gotta figure out a way to try to, you know, [00:38:00] teach, tell these coaches that it. We we're, we're never gonna get to the point where winning isn't important. I mean that's well, it shouldn't,

[00:38:10] Phil Darke: I don't think, I think you shouldn't get to the point.

I think it is. It is in life.

[00:38:14] Phil DuBois: We, we should, we should teach our kids how to win. We should teach them to want to win. because that's important. Yeah. But in the end, victories are transitory. I mean, I don't remember half of what happened in, in my youth as far as you know, they're not an end in itself. There, there are other things that can go on within the process where you can teach some of these kids.

Things other than we have to win at all


[00:38:49] Phil Darke: Yep. For sure. Well, we definitely have a lot more to talk about, and I think one of the things you talk about there really is the idea of how do we define success is another one of those things and the success [00:39:00] measures. They. We may need to be changing and, and modifying, but we do have to call it a day here, but I do wanna thank you again.

I mean, this has been as not, not surprising has been just a great conversation. So I just want to thank you for for being here with us.

[00:39:16] Phil DuBois: Well, I appreciate you having me,

[00:39:18] Coach Roz: Phil. I want to, and, and again, I wanna say thanks as well, and we've got so much more stuff to talk about and I'm gonna, my, my ending is going to be, as we are talking about the solution it's guys like you, that have a voice that for a period of time, youth coaches, parents, and kids will listen to.

And it's you spitting into the fan and us spitting into the fan going there's a different way to do. There is a different way to do this. So we stay locked in arms on this and and continue the, continue the mission. Yep. Absolutely.

[00:39:56] Phil Darke: Can I,

[00:39:57] Phil DuBois: can I say one more thing?

Absolutely. Go for it. [00:40:00] And, and I just want everybody. I'm not gonna try to explain what I'm gonna say. I just want everybody to think about this. There's a proverb Alfred north Whitehead. He was a 19th and 20th century, British philosopher and mathematician all, all

[00:40:17] Coach Roz: as X. Know that

[00:40:18] Phil DuBois: film? Yeah, I'm sure they do.

There's a proverb of about the difficulty of seeing the wood because of the trees. We've all heard that mm-hmm. He says the problem of education and then not, I'm talking about education and sport education in life is to make the pupil, see the wood by means of the trees. Just let that roll around in your mind a little bit and tell me what.

You think it might be

[00:40:48] Phil Darke: next time we get on this, we will have a good conversation about that. Okay. Again, folks, you know, that actually kind of reminds me right there. You know how the end of movies, sometimes you have the credits and then they have a little [00:41:00] clip after the credits that you have to wait for folks, you have no idea what's gonna happen on this show.

and so you need to listen to the end of our episodes. You just got that proven true right there. Right. So folks. Thanks a lot for, again, for the download, have a great week.

 Well, once again, I am. So grateful that we were able to get that episode out to you. And again, like I said, at the beginning, I hope that you are better for it. I hope that you learned something in that, that you're going to be able to apply immediately in your life in some way. In some way, you're going to be a better coach and somewhere you're going to be a better leader in whatever you're leading in some way, you're going to be able to be better in your own home, in your community.

And that's why we do what we do. That's why we do what we do on how soccer explains leadership. And so I am very excited. That we have some new episodes coming your way in a couple of weeks. As I said, at the beginning, it will be the third. Thursday of September. [00:42:00] I believe that's the 15th. I don't have a calendar in front of me, but set the date, stay tuned. We got some great stuff coming at you.

This year. Um, actually to finish off the year, we're already well So to finish off this year, we got those coming to And we also always have the things that we're doing warrior way to find out what Paul and Marcy Jobson are doing with Coaching the bigger to find out what Christian diaries and I are doing with that. You can learn about disc training. If you go and click on that link on the show notes for this episode, which you can

And we hope that you subscribe to this show. So you don't miss a single one. You don't miss when our new season starts. And, you know, most importantly we hope Paul and I both, you know, why we do what we do is because we hope that what you're learning on this show will help you to be that better leader. Be that better spouse, better.

Parent. Better. Coach. [00:43:00] Better friend, better in everything that And that you continually remind yourself that soccer does. Explain life and leadership. Thanks a lot. Have a great week.